Author Topic: P39 & other info on russian front  (Read 3373 times)

Offline humble

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P39 & other info on russian front
« on: December 08, 2003, 04:02:46 PM »
A. S. Nikilay Gerasimovich, could the Cobra really contend with the Bf-109G and FW-190 in aerial combat?

N. G. Yes. The Cobra, especially the Q-5, took second place to no one, and even surpassed all the German fighters.

I flew more than 100 combat sorties in the Cobra, of these 30 in reconnaissance, and fought 17 air combats. The Cobra was not inferior in speed, in acceleration, nor in vertical or horizontal maneuverability. It was a very balanced fighter.


http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/index.htm

Interesting reading...was posted in a thread in AHII beta BBS

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Offline brady

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P39 & other info on russian front
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2003, 04:08:25 PM »
I realy hope we dont see this plane anytime soon, their are so many others that would realy be nice before we get yet another US fighter. Realy in the Grand scheam of things it was almost a token presence in the VVS compared to all their Fighter's.

Offline ra

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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2003, 04:55:12 PM »
Over 4,700 P-39s were delivered to the USSR, and others saw service with the US in the Pacific and Mediteranian.  It was not an insignificant plane, unlike many of the others already modeled in AH.

ra

Offline brady

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P39 & other info on russian front
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2003, 06:10:59 PM »
About 9,500 in all were made, and half went to the USSR (5,000), A quick glance threw a couple books puts soviet fighter production at, at least 100,000 planes for the war so all in all it is a prety small percentage of the total picture, as it was in other theaters even whear the US used it, in the SWPA are in late 42. early 43 it represented like 30 percent of all US Army types in theater, their it would  represent the bigest over all contrabution to the war(in a theater), but from my perspective it would not at all help in any way to creat good plane match up's in that theater. My want's tend to fall toward filling wholes we have in the plane set and adding another US fighter to an area whear we are in nead of Japanese planes is somthing I would not ask for. As for the Russian theater, I would realy like to see some Real Russian planes instead of another US one. I am shure we will see the P39 in AH at some point all am geting at is that their are many countrys in ead of further fleshing out and to do one now would put them off even further.

Offline simshell

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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2003, 06:19:59 PM »
i think it would just be a yak-t clone when it comes to usefullness but i hope im wrong
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Offline humble

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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2003, 06:44:56 PM »
I didnt post it as a lobbying effort...personally i'd rather see a bunch of other planes first. I was just somewhat amazed that this one source at least viewed the plane as a formidable air to air combat plane.

As a side note he viewed the hurricane as a much less cabable plane....also the russians had no hurricanes that came with 20mm. They were russian field modifications using russian 20mm (1 per wing) with a 12.7mm mg as well.

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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2003, 06:45:27 PM »
I'd like to see it labeled as a Russian fighter, as part of the 1942~1943 setups.

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2003, 07:08:04 PM »
The P39 was not insignificant......more flew combat for the VVs than did La7's or even if we look at single variants of the Yak3 or Yak 9U its quantity contribution was equal.

It was the preffered ride of VVS's 2nd highest ranking (and many would say most able) ace Pokryshkin. Who uniquely flew every VVS fighter variant during the GPW in combat.

It  was flown by 4 of the VVs's top 10 aces. Most of whom were trained in the use of the P39 by Pokryshkin who perfected ACM methods best suited to this AC.


Reading Earls accounts of flying the P39 it was no uber plane and certainly would not  out perform contempory 109's in terms of manouverability or acceleration. It was however very tough, very reliable, had more than adequate zoom capability and it packed a punch. Further its higher altitude limitations would not have hindered it on the Russian front.


For me the next VVS AC should be the Pe2, plus there are several Yak variants easily done from stuff already existing. Yak 9 M, Yak 9D, Yak 3 even.

However a p39 would certainly feature in any Russian front scenario worthy of the name.
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Offline Tony Williams

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P39 & other info on russian front
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2003, 09:07:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
As a side note he viewed the hurricane as a much less cabable plane....also the russians had no hurricanes that came with 20mm. They were russian field modifications using russian 20mm (1 per wing) with a 12.7mm mg as well.


Correction - they did get some Hurri IICs and kept the Hispanos (mainly for ground attack IIRC). However, they stripped the .303s from the other versions they received and replaced them with their own guns as you say.

I suspect that part of their unhappiness with the Hurri was that it was designed to run on higher-octane fuel than the Russians could provide, so its mediocre performance was further reduced in Russian service.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

Offline F4UDOA

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P39 & other info on russian front
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2003, 09:19:38 PM »
The P-39 also had the benifit of the allison engine which could be overboosted and flown well beyond reccomended limitations. I don't know that the Russians had the fuel quality to utilize this capability but the Allison engine was more than up to the task.

In fact the AAF ran it at 70" MAP in test against the A6M2 and in the Cleveland Air races post war it was ran run at high MAP to great effect winning the 1946 race against P-51's, P-38's and alike.

Again I don't know if the VVS could use this capability or not.

Offline brady

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P39 & other info on russian front
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2003, 10:46:11 PM »
Well we all know production figures are not a determiner as to wheater or not a plane is included in AH, No mater how you slice it though over all they did represent a very small percentage of the total war time soviet fighter force. At this point in time I would be happy to see about anything New plane wise, I just hope as I alwsy do that we get a bit more Varity in term's of plane's from the lesser represented country's. I belave all in all the Yaks by them selvs amounted to over 30,000 planes ( I think 37,000 to be more exact).

Offline GScholz

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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2003, 01:02:35 AM »
I thought the 109 held the record of highest production run of any fighter with 35.000 built during the war?
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Offline brady

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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2003, 01:18:11 AM »
One of My general refrence books sights over 37,000 for all Yak's built in WW2, it could be that they often consider the differing Yak's as diferent Planes, while the 109 is considered one Plane type with different models. I beleave the Most produced Plane of WW2 was the Il-2(42,000+ including Il-10's).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2003, 01:20:38 AM by brady »

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2003, 05:20:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by brady
One of My general refrence books sights over 37,000 for all Yak's built in WW2, it could be that they often consider the differing Yak's as diferent Planes, while the 109 is considered one Plane type with different models. I beleave the Most produced Plane of WW2 was the Il-2(42,000+ including Il-10's).


I rem this debate in AW........... I put the Yak variants up as the most produced fighter and was told it did not count as they were different model streams..... ( 1,3,7, 9)

Similarly 109 and Spit were so split.  

This permitted the supporters of the P47 to claim the honour of most produced fighter AC. (Much to the chagrin of the P40 lobbiests)

I could not agree with the arguement that the P39's contribution was small or insignificant to the VVS fighter corps. It was the only LL fighter AC they liked. They positively disliked the Spit and the Hurris.
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Offline Batz

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P39 & other info on russian front
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2003, 08:52:23 AM »
I think the p39 would be a fine addition. Although not at the expense of other needed planes.

For the p39 to get the use some think it would get we would need atleast 3 variants.

p39d
p39n
p39q

If we go by previous history HT would introduce the p39q10 or something and we would be sol trying to use it in other theaters. Look at the p38l, p47d11 etc....

Once we get 1 variant of the p39 the odds of seeing another any time in the next 5 years would be slim to none. :D

The next VVS ac should be a pe2/3

then more yak variants Yak 9m Yak9d Yak 1 Yak 7 then laGGs and ratas......

The japanese really need planes a6m3, ki84, ki100, ki43, betty and judy.

Please more VVS and Japanese planes........!!!