Author Topic: Link or Separate Cannon and MG? (Read 1664 times)

Halo · « **on:** December 08, 2003, 08:18:13 PM »

How do you fire your guns in aircraft equipped with both cannon and machineguns, linked or separately?

I remember reading that many Zero pilots wired their cannon and MG to fire simultaneously because it simplified their flying burden in combat.

Certainly some cannon and MG work better together than others, but all seem to be effective in combination if fired from 200 yards and closer, don't they?

Just curious -- how many of you fire your cannon and MG separately, and how many fire them linked together on one fire button?

Of those who link, for all planes or just for some, and if the latter, which and why?

Tony Williams · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2003, 09:10:19 PM »

It's worth noting that in the Bf 109E, the cannon can only fire for seven seconds while the MGs can fire for a whole minute. So 'firing them together' would mean an initial burst of cannon fire followed by a long period with nothing but MGs - probably not what you want.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

brady · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2003, 10:54:01 PM »

I always fire the cannon seperatly, they generaly have a totaly different trajectory and since they do the killing and are typicaly possesed of a much smaller ammo load I tend to place the shots, In a plane like the 109E, or the A6M's I use the MG's only to coaral the target or if I have no cannon left, or if I am in a posation to unload a lot of MG and hit the target I will use the MG to improve my Hit %.

GODO · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2003, 02:15:27 AM »

For 190 family, the best combination I've found:

A5 and A8 (both 4x20mm): cannons and MGs separately.
D9 and F8: cannons and MGs linked.
Ta152: 30mm and 20mm separately.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2003, 06:59:48 AM »

Bf109E only fire cannon and MG seperately.

Bf109F/G with single 20mm I will fire the cannon and MG (13mm or 7.92) together when I have a good shot. I will use only the MG when I have the guy nailed in a tracking shot and he cant get away or to get him to turn if he is fleeing.

Bf109G with 30mm, fire cannon and MG seperatly.

I map cannon and MG to seperate triggers on every plane.

humble · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2003, 03:57:25 PM »

Usually I have both mapped to main trigger and mg's to sec trigger. on 190, 205, spit V, Yak 9-t, 109 with 30mm I'll map cannon only to main & mg's to sec. Same with 109 E if I have to fly it. G-2 I flip flop a bit...problem is you cant hit with 20mm and 7.7mm mg outside of 150 or so (my guess).

mos · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2003, 05:23:09 PM »

It depends on what I'm firing at. If it's a Zeke, I won't waste my cannon rounds and just shred the wings with my 50cals. If it's a Hellcat, on the otherhand, I want to make sure it goes down and I will stand on the combined cannon/50cal trigger if I have to.

For the most part, I don't fire the cannons in my P38 unless it's a tough target or a highly target-rich environment and I need every hitsprite to count.

Batz · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2003, 05:32:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GODO
For 190 family, the best combination I've found:

A5 and A8 (both 4x20mm): cannons and MGs separately.
D9 and F8: cannons and MGs linked.
Ta152: 30mm and 20mm separately.

Dont even bother taking the mgff on the a5 its only 60 rpg and the added weight offsets any gain in firepower. They are also different balllistically and are in the outer position which means you will mostly miss with those cannon.

2 x 20 is all you need on any of the 190s. The only time you need 4 x20 on the a8 to kill bombers quicker.

In events we usually dump all the mg as its weight vrs added firepower isnt worth it.

In 109s always fire the cannon mg seperately. Never bother with gondolas. When armed with 30mm turn off tracers.

Karnak · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2003, 09:09:14 PM »

Wotan speaks words of wisdom in regards to the Fw190A-5. Listen and heed him well.

I fire my Mossie's cannons and machine guns separately unless I am straffing a building or base structure. Frankly I usually land (when I manage to actually survive a sortie) with all 3120 .303 rounds still aboard.

Flyboy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2003, 01:17:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Batz
In 109s always fire the cannon mg seperately. Never bother with gondolas. When armed with 30mm turn off tracers.

i disagree batz.

i fly the 109g10 with gondols and a 20mm cannon in the spinner, and gives me no problems at all.

the added fire power is so much of an improvment that it completely shadows the extra weight.

for new pilots i will suggest leaving the gondols at the hanger untill they feel that they have achieved full control of the plane.

ofcourse i only take the gondols in the MA, if in events or a duel a clean single 20mm is the right choice.

scJazz · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2003, 08:01:14 AM »

In nearly every aircraft and in most situations I fire ALL weapons simultaneously. However, I also go OFFLINE and use the Target to tweak the convergence settings until the MG and cannon have the same shot pattern at a "sweet spot" range. For most gun packages you can get setups that include MG and cannon rounds hitting the center of the target from 200 to 350 yards. This can make for some wierd convergence settings though like 600 yards on cannon and 250 yards on MGs.

humble · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2003, 10:34:27 AM »

interesting thought jazz...will the convergance hold up under G's?

What I normally find is that pulling G's on a snap shot causes the heavier cannon rounds...specially the german stuff to "fall of the table". The biggest complaints I always see is someone "lighting me up" prior to an overshoot then complaining when they get nailed nailed afterward. Invariably it's someone firing mg's and cannon togeather and seeing the 7.7mm or such tickling me and not realizing the heavier cannon rounds are all well behind me.

Can you use the "target" feature to simulate firing pattern under G loads???

scJazz · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2003, 11:29:59 AM »

Since the Target is always due North and co-alt with you there are some restrictions. However you can pull Gs in the horizontal and take a deflection shot at the target. You can also use the vertical to a more limited degree since the target will follow you up and down. That having been said...

Unless we are talking about a high velocity cannon round like the Hispano 20mm they always "tend to fall off the table" in G loaded gun solutions or deflection shots. Still it is worth noting that almost all of these shots are taken with the target under your nose so you can't even see them. The spread caused by the slow cannon and fast MG rounds gives you a shotgun like effect which generally improves your chances of hitting. Using the whacked out convergences I often set minimizes the spread to a degree but nothing will ever stop it.

As a final comment deflection shots or high G load shots always stink! Yes they can be made, yes people can be quite good at it. No it isn't the shot you want to be taking! When I'm in my more patient moods I'll often fly offensive for a solid 10, 20, even 60 seconds before firing at all. Waiting for the moment I can take an unloaded shot.

Anyone who wants to practice this a bit should head over to the CT before Friday morning. The planeset is LW vs VVS and includes the YAK-9T. The 9T will teach anyone the art of waiting for the right moment. For the 9T I use 600 yards on the MG and 350 yards on the 37mm. The sweet spot is around 300 yards but I never fire both guns on this plane simultaneously unless I'm shooting at a bomber.

Whups forgot one thing... the majority of these deflection shots come from scissors like manuvering. This tends to put the enemy pilot in a position facing toward your guns. The whole shotgun like approach is quite likely to either hit the pilot or slam rounds into his engine both of which are very weak.

Batz · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2003, 02:25:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Flyboy
i disagree batz.

i fly the 109g10 with gondols and a 20mm cannon in the spinner, and gives me no problems at all.

the added fire power is so much of an improvment that it completely shadows the extra weight.

for new pilots i will suggest leaving the gondols at the hanger untill they feel that they have achieved full control of the plane.

ofcourse i only take the gondols in the MA, if in events or a duel a clean single 20mm is the right choice.

As long as you shoot/aim well gondolas arent needed at all. I flew mainly the g6 with just 30mm and was mostly limited by fuel not ammo. Fly how you want but imo the g6/g10 dont need gondolas. The g2 and f4 are even better planes with out them.

The 109e and its mgff need to be fired seperately.

Sikboy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2003, 04:01:38 PM »

My Aim is so horrible, I need ot be ultra close to hit with my ShVak, so I go ahead and give em the 12.7s as well, figuring I can't miss with it all. When I'm out of 20mm, I go get more.

-Sik