Author Topic: Warning: WHINE in progress...  (Read 1220 times)

Offline slimm50

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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2003, 01:50:52 PM »
Roland: "I push my stick so I'm diving, so that
1)he doesnt get a HO firing solution"

setting yourself up for a cockpit shot there.


Roland: "I pull up a tad before merge, to
2)I'm already climbing to reverse on him while he's still going straight, giving me an angles edge"

My opponents rarely oblige me by flying straight through a merge. Ususally, they've got the same idea as me. They either head up, or turn immediately after they pass.

I'll sometimes point my nose down to gather speed, then zoom up either right before we pass (i know i know) or immediately after, but I assume he's either doing the same or turning. But sometimes (and this baffles me) they's head straight for the deck even though they my be in a plane that can't possibly outrun my PonyD.

Offline slimm50

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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2003, 01:54:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by muckmaw
That's a good tactic, Dowd, and I've used it alot.

For some reason, the enemy seems to bag me on the deflection show anyway. It happens a little too often, giving me the feeling I'm not diving hard enough on the initial merge.


Yeah, I agree, you're prolly not diving hard enough initially. When I point my nose down, I point it way down till I'm about 500-600 feet under him. I try to maiintain that seperation til we pass.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2003, 02:13:22 PM »
Quote
"I push my stick so I'm diving, so that he doesnt get a HO firing solution"

- setting yourself up for a cockpit shot there


 Cockpit shot is a possibility, but it is also an incredibly hard shot to take and the chances of it happening extremely slim. The closure speed and angle between two planes approaching head-on usually means the appropriate amount of lead is also incredibly longer than one might expect.

 It even gets better, when you go into a dive with a slight turn to left and right - virtually impossible to hit a plane evading that way for an average pilot. The only instance where you get hit, is most usually when you start the dive too late - which usually takes off the vertical stab.

 I've seen only a handful of people who can consistently deal critical damage against a plane going into that typical evasives - 3 pilots, fester, Taki, and Rude immediately come into my mind. Besides these guys I've almost never been shot down while trying to evade a HO.



Quote
"I'm already climbing to reverse on him while he's still going straight, giving me an angles edge"

- My opponents rarely oblige me by flying straight through a merge. Ususally, they've got the same idea as me. They either head up, or turn immediately after they pass.

 I'll sometimes point my nose down to gather speed, then zoom up either right before we pass (i know i know) or immediately after, but I assume he's either doing the same or turning. But sometimes (and this baffles me) they's head straight for the deck even though they my be in a plane that can't possibly outrun my PonyD.


 Depends on situation. Experience usually dictates to the pilot that when the enemy turns first then you go straight, and when the enemy does not turn you turn first. However so many different variables are in concern with what happens after the first HO merge that it's almost too hard to discuss.


Quote
I'm in full agreement with you there. That's not yer typical HO dweeb kneejerk reaction. That's talent.


 Then you don't have to complain about anything. Typical HO dweebs are super easy to avoid and take advantage of. You know they will rely on maximum turns and pulls at every possible corner to get a gun solution any way they can(which usually results in HOs) - what's easier to handle when you know what he's gonna do?

 The guys that really scare me is the ones in Spit9s or N1K2s who know how to use that plane - luring fast fighters into lazy turns or shallow dives and bam! -  a catastrophic overshoot with not much E difference bewteen two planes, which usually lands the enemy plane behind my 6 at 400~500 yards, with the acceleration advantage on me. As I accelerate away the fediddlein' long-range gunnery aspect of AH kicks in as they snipe or spray Hizookas and quad-Type99s at 500~600 yards.

 That's what bothers me - HOs have not for once bothered me.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2003, 02:15:51 PM by Kweassa »

Offline Blooz

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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2003, 04:46:55 PM »
I'm not here to dance. I'm here to shoot you down. If a head on shot is presented then I will take it. The faster I knock you down, the faster I get to your buddies.


Now all I have to do is get good at it...lol
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Offline Overlag

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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2003, 06:16:08 PM »
i go for the HO, fire a couple of shots from like 2k, then i pull out. i get on the targets six, have him warp behind me and hit enter 3 times, and forget to open chute fast enough......

rinse
repeat
« Last Edit: December 10, 2003, 06:18:56 PM by Overlag »
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Offline Murdr

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« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2003, 06:28:44 PM »
Bah.  Kweassa already touched on the points I was thinking of.  Except that I dont wait to see what the other guy is going to do after the merge to decide what Im doing.  
The enemy plane type and speed that is closing to joust you, should indicate whether you are going for pure sidesteping a HO, or setting up for a pre-turn.

Offline mold

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« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2003, 08:11:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
As I accelerate away the fediddlein' long-range gunnery aspect of AH kicks in as they snipe or spray Hizookas and quad-Type99s at 500~600 yards.


LOL.  Yes, this is one thing I am looking forward to in AH2...less spray-sniping.

Quote
Originally posted by Blooz
I'm not here to dance. I'm here to shoot you down. If a head on shot is presented then I will take it.


As has been said above, HO's are almost always avoidable, and usually put the HOer at a disadvantage after the merge.  The only time I am caught by them is if I give in to temptation and try matching the HO myself--then I am invariably shot down.  Serves me right. :)

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2003, 08:24:10 PM »
When I duck under an enemy on the merge and hear his/her guns firing, I know my odds of getting the kill just increased greatly.  That being said, hell I'll HO sometimes too though, just depends on my mood and the situation.

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2003, 12:36:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by slimm50
I'm just curious...is there ANYONE out there who, upon encountering an enemy fighter, tries to do somehting other than face-shoot as a first reaction.




Yep.  Maneuvering for a shot that has at best a 50/50 chance of succeeding and even a greater chance of you being damaged as result is pretty stupid.


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Offline SunKing

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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2003, 09:57:09 AM »
You can usually tell whos gonna fly in straight lines and try for the HO kill. Majority of the time its all the late war planes. Pprobably cause they attract all the newer players with the limited skill at the time who think faster is better. Most early war fighters you can expect to dogfight rather than extending and flying in straight lines back and forth. just my observation of the MA.  

p.s. Any high pony or p-38 don't except to fight.. 90% of em in the MA are on a jabo suicide pork run anyway.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2003, 10:29:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Blooz
I'm not here to dance. I'm here to shoot you down. If a head on shot is presented then I will take it. The faster I knock you down, the faster I get to your buddies.


Now all I have to do is get good at it...lol


I would suggest that you concentrate more on ACM than becoming proficient at the HO. There is no skill involved in a 0 deflection shot and the percentages of surviving the HO are 50% at best and the percent of coming away unscathed are less than 50%.

I find, in my experience, that 9 out of 10 guys that try to HO me end up dead ... if the don't make the "one pass - haul prettythang" also known as the "HO and GO" maneuver.

It seems the guy that always goes for the HO, is always expecting the 50/50 result ... I am either going to die or he is going to die.

Their thoughts of what do I do if the other guy side-steps or barrlerolls around the HO never enters their mind. So, once the HO is avoided, they probably scream ... "oh crap" what do I do now ... yank the stick up,  start a hard flat turn, or dive to the deck. Meanwhile, the other guy has already thought of at least two countermoves to the merge and has now attached himself securely to your 6. Joust over.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why people will fly 1 or more sectors, only to HO the first guy they see and then plummet to the ground with their burning wreck or sustain damage that takes them out of any other fight that might come their way.

Don't get me wrong, I will face-shoot you if I am mixing it up with multiples and my only solution to eliminate one of them is the HO, otherwise, I avoid them at all costs.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2003, 03:31:12 PM by SlapShot »
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Offline slimm50

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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2003, 11:03:14 AM »
Slap, my sentiments, exactly.

slim03

Offline Furious

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« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2003, 12:18:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
... if the don't make the "one pass - haul prettythang" maneuver...


I call that the "HO and GO".

Offline DoctorYO

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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2003, 12:50:52 PM »
Utilize the over aggressivness of the con against them...

Dive under his nose at the last second, if the con continues to try to get headon solution you then pull 3 g turn and get out of his way...

If he continues to track while your pulling 3 g's one his shot on you is 1 in 10,000 also he pulling a higher g load which will hurt him when you decide to zoom after the merge...

its pretty amusing some fool thinks they headoning me while im thinking this baffoon will be dead in 3 manuevers do to my e fighting....

Like everything certain tactics have strengths and weaknesses and as such in this case if they comming for a headon use energy tactics against them...


Correct use of the headon is when:

highly outnumbered (desperation)

forcing a headon on a diving/attacking con who is near vertical in AOA...

Targets of opportunity (hence the con chasing your buddy and is not aware of your presence....)

Stalling or floudering aircraft after e fighting them...

there may be few others but live by those rules and your headon woes will diminish...

It really does take two aircraft for a headon...


2 Cents



DoctorYo

Offline MotorOil

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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2003, 03:22:32 PM »
Usually don't HO on the first contact, but anything goes after the merge.  

If the HO gets on your nerves, up a G6 or G10, tempt every con coming your way into the ho, start shooting everything at about 1.2, break at 700 and watch the bad guy go down in flames.;)