Author Topic: The AH Ecosystem (Read 1365 times)

dtango · « **on:** December 10, 2003, 05:53:53 PM »

In reference to the recent rash of posts on this BBS on the eternal debate regarding maps, arenas, and game play styles I thought I would post a perspective for consideration.

In my opinion a better model to describe how the AH Main Arena functions is that of an ecosystem. An ecosystem is a community of different species interdependent on each other that interact together with their non-living environment to form a stable system.

I believe the real key for a successful map or arena is to create battlefield ecosystem that produces a critical mass of predators and prey creating and sustaining a concentration of numbers that fosters the formation of localized pitched battles.

Like any ecosysem a diversity of species (a diversity of gameplay styles for us) is a key enabler in creating critical mass and therefore sustaining the ecosystem. For instance players trying to take a base start the cycle of creating critical mass by drawing the various other types of game play species out forming a battlefield where a variety of great fights can be found. In another example players interested in quick low level turn fights generate the critical mass that draws out all the other species to the contest. In both cases a population of various types of predator and prey show up to form the basis of the "food chain" that make up the ecosystem.

As in nature maintaining the balance (and in our case enjoyment) is a tricky thing and it doesn't take a whole lot to muck up the balance. In our case maps that isolate or favor particular styles of game play really knock things out of balance. In my opinion this is always a bad idea. That's why maps like Pizza or FesterMA get as many howls as they do. Pizza is geared toward gv's and uncontested strat. FesterMA provides quick furballs all over. Both favor certain game play styles over others, reducing ability to create and sustain critical mass which is unhealthy for trying to sustain an ecosystem. On the otherhand maps like Mindinao or Trinity do a better job at sustaining critical mass.

Thoughts?

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Ghosth · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2003, 06:13:39 PM »

Good post & well thought out IMO.

lazs2 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2003, 06:16:20 PM »

I think that too much of the strat depends on killing fighters ability to.... to fight. there is no balance and the effects are lopsided ...

maps like festers get the least protest as they simply have the fields closer together... in order for the streat and high alt sky accountants to protest they are put in the position of admitting that they are milkrunning cherry pickers who need the most lopsided equipment and maps in order to do well.

Maps like the pizza abortion make it difficult for anyone who wants a good furball or wants to fly early war/slow planes effectively... there is very little choice so there is a lot more protest..

lazs

oboe · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2003, 06:54:47 PM »

Interesting analogy, dtango...thanks!

NoBaddy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2003, 07:31:37 PM »

Tango...

Your post reminds me a lot of my first college biology class. Are you, perchance, a teacher

?

mars01 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2003, 07:59:16 PM »

Interesting, not sure what your conclusions are?

As far as Fester fostering a particular game style yes it fosters better furballs but does it take away from any other facet of game play?

If so, how?

This is a key question about Festers map no one has been able to answer. I have seen a post about it promoting a horde mentality, but that is not so much the map as it is the number of people flying against smaller numbers.

Lets face it a great furball would be two equally sized hordes colliding.

nopoop · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2003, 08:01:07 PM »

NB he didn't say ANYTHING about frogs, various anatomical parts or the funny smell that came with them.

Mindy and baltic "seem" to have the balance. Trinity tends to bring out the hordes for some reason. Prolly cuz all the "fighters" are in the volcano. Get some going off the cv's tho..

Haven't spent time in Festers. But I plan to.

scJazz · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2003, 08:31:02 PM »

Dang Tango... you might be like approaching Kweassa levels of well thought out and reasoned posts. Your right... as for lazs2's comment about strat players screwin furballs up he is right to a point. Then again he needs to remember that Furballing is by definition non-location specific as opposed to strating which involves a specific piece of real estate. Furballers can always just go somewhere else to furball. Capturing a critical base means taking a very specific thing. Lastly one of the things furballers tend to forget is that some of their favorite furballs started when 2 strat groups began a contest over a base. They jump on the bandwagon thinking furball and then get all grumpy when the base gets captured.

scJazz · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2003, 08:32:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mars01
Lets face it a great furball would be two equally sized hordes colliding.

Try the CAP and SEA events. Pretty much the definition of the opening moments.

dtango · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2003, 09:22:34 PM »

Hehe nopoop

. I hated that smell in my biology classes! I agree with you regarding Mindy and Baltic maps, maybe not quite on Trinity. NoBaddy- nah, teaching is way too hard let alone teaching biology!

mars01 - not sure I'm making many conclusions- really just offering a different way of looking at the issue by using a metaphor of an ecosystem. There is one point that I am making and that is in my opinion that key to a successful map or arena is purposely creating an environment that encourages sustained concentrations of numbers created by a variety of species feeding off of one another. Creating environments that favor a certain game play style over another ultimately breaks down the ecosystem which means less fun for all of us.

As to FesterMA, I think it's straightforward. The fields are packed so close together that it encourages a single style of play, primarily the quick low altitude turn fight at the detriment of the others. For instance those going after base captures are continually frustrated because the fields are so packed on the flanks that it's very difficult to generate air dominance to capture a field.

One other point worth making sort of related to the whole matter- in my opinion there is a much greater variety of game play styles than dividing the community up into furballers or strat players. That is too simplistic and leads to wrong conclusions in what makes maps work versus what doesn't. For instance I bet we would get a variety of opinions regarding what a furball is. An example I love furballs, big nasty furballs. But a big nasty furball to me is NOT a situation where it's a mindless chasing of targets where getting kills and surviving is based on pure luck and there is no incentive for people to try and live afte tough fights. In my opinion there is a much greater variety of game play styles (or species) than the typical two or three that we label.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

IK0N · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2003, 07:03:31 AM »

Also every predator in the ecosystem has his own agenda, this being said some predators are better lobbiests then other predators. Getting their personal agenda heard above all other predators is akin to winning. A few predators have been very good at turning the tide with lobbying their agenda on the BBS, impressively so. When other predators lobby their agenda they get beaten like baby seals by the other predators, not because their agenda is wrong, but maybe because they haven't prepared their lobby properly and argued it effectively to the powers that be. It also has to do with the judges as much as the lobbiests, the judges have to see the predators for what their agenda truely is, and balance it with the other predators agendas because overall the losing predators will move on to other prey eventually if not heard or taken in to consideration.

IK0N

lazs2 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2003, 08:14:42 AM »

tango.. on festers map not all the fields are having furballs. you can still milkrun to your hearts delight. the cheery pickers have it both better and worse... better if they are sorta skilled and have some small amount of sa ability... they can take their pee 51's and dee nines and tyuphies and gee 10's and hit players who are otherwise involved... the cherry pickers who lack even a small amount of skill hate it because when they swoop down in their late war plane they allways misjudge or don't see the threats involved with a lot of players.

for the furballers... festers map rocks because even with a squad or two doing "missunz" and milkrunning fields... the furballers still have a couple of good fields to choose from.

If the strat girls can't make festers map work it is because of the very thing that they accuse the furballers of... not paying attention and not having any patience... and of course... depending on the crutch of numbers, late war planes and deserted fields.

lazs

mold · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2003, 09:30:15 AM »

You're not a real man unless you fly Spads and Fokkers. Everyone else is a sissy and a girl.

Quote

Originally posted by dtango
I hated that smell in my biology classes!

I love the smell of formaldehyde in the morning, evening, and all times in between. Actually, never mind I hate it too.

Zanth · « **Reply #13 on:** December 11, 2003, 10:23:59 AM »

Your ecosystem analogy tracks fine until your one dimensional characterization of the maps. At that point this "new perspective" lost objectivity and became just another map complaint.

Shane · « **Reply #14 on:** December 11, 2003, 10:41:55 AM »

just as long as most of you know your position is below me in the AH foodchain.