Author Topic: 109 G10 Bug (Read 2158 times)

Zanth · « **on:** December 12, 2003, 04:57:43 PM »

Something is terribly wrong with the 109.

Do auto takeoff and dont touch controls. As sson as wheels leave gorun you begin a gentle left turn. This effect becomes more pronounced until at about 7k you will be heeling over to left so hard the plane spins out.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2003, 05:23:47 PM »

Zanth its engine torque, the auto climb does not have enough aeleron authority to counter it.
But all you have to do is reduce power slightly until you can climb ok

Hajo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2003, 11:15:33 PM »

Zanth....what Cavalear said is true. Even in the MA the G10 needs a good dose of right aileron trim. Torque effect in Beta is more pronounced. Note when going into auto climb...watch your artificial horizon. If the climbing speed is to low....torque has a greater effect....will cause you to climb with a left bank.

JustJim · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2003, 03:46:43 AM »

thats all fine and dandy and perfectly understandable

but isnt auto anything supposed to adjust for this ?

I would say this is the problem being pointed out here.

it needs to be tweaked slightly in auto mode.

ran into that problem myself, bummed me out as i'm finally starting to learn the G-10

Pepe · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2003, 04:23:47 PM »

"Too much Spit flying can be harmful for your flying skillz"

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2003, 03:50:56 AM »

WTF is auto take off and why would anyone flying a G10 even want it - if it is what I think it is.

mrblack · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2003, 04:39:27 PM »

Cure for the G-10 DON'T FLY IT:D
It aint done yet guys.

Zanth · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2003, 08:53:53 AM »

This was a bug report to HTC staff, not an opinion. Auto takeoff routine was used so as to describe the bug and how to most easily recreate/demonstrate it in a way that rules out pilot error.

None of lowly plain old players gets to see the code. We are not qualified to say what is the cause - all we get to see is the effect. (ex. It could also be one of those new lift points is incorrectly placed)

IMHO we should probably just report bugs here as we were asked to, and leave the conjecture for the discussion board.

F4i · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2003, 02:39:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pepe
"Too much Spit flying can be harmful for your flying skillz"

Amen.

TBolt

Toad · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2003, 09:59:52 AM »

Man, I've missed something!

The last 30 years I've never read anywhere that aileron trim should be the primary method of countering nose swing on takeoff. None of my instructors ever let that little secret gem slip either.

I was under the mistaken impression that the rudder itself.. not the rudder trim... was primary. Oh well.

fats · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2003, 11:37:46 AM »

Toad,

I don't think he said there was anything wrong with autotake off. He said the problem occurs once you actually become airborne. If you recall early beta versions of AH also had 109 that was unable to climb straight with autoclimb.

// fats

Sabre · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2003, 12:22:49 PM »

The 109G-10's incredible torque to the left makes this a real beast to fly now. Now I've read it was a much more exhausting plane to fly than some others, but it seems overdone in AH2. I was going to post about this same thing; glad I'm not the only one questioning it. Basically, you cannot climb on full throttle with autopilot, either trim to speed or trim to angle. Heck, it even seems to pull to the left when using trim to level flight! After a single 109 flight, my arm is sore and weak (TM Cougar, you see). Even with the ailerons trimmed all the way right, it rolls to the left under full throttle. Maybe it's historically accurate, but it makes this bird (my favorite ride next to the 109F...until now) completely unattractive to me now.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2003, 04:59:53 PM »

Toad we are not referring to auto take off, or nose swing at all.
So its not surprising none of your instructors ever mentioned it, and i do say that tongue in cheek knowing you have far more real experience than i could dream of.

As i said previously to counter it in AH2 just reduce engine thrust until you do climb level or alternatively increase your climb speed until you gain the aeleron authority you feel is currently missing.

Zanth

Quote

This was a bug report to HTC staff, not an opinion.

But i beg to differ your original post started with,

Quote

Something is terribly wrong with the 109.

Now if thats not an "opinion" i dont know what is.

The remainder of your post was a bug report.

Quote

IMHO we should probably just report bugs here as we were asked to, and leave the conjecture for the discussion board.

I agree.

Zanth you have been doing a great job providing feed back for the Beta so feel free to ignore us heckling from the back row

Personally i like the effect of auto not giving you full performance capability, perhaps it should be enabled on all aircraft.

Pepe · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2003, 08:41:27 AM »

From my limited experience, what seems to happen in G-10 is not rudder related but wheel related.

My experience was that if I took off, and the wheel touched the rnwy again, looked like it was braked, and the plane made a nice 360 before it desintegrated. Now with G-10 torque, the easy part was doing it with the left wheel. If I just rotate the plane faster, so the wheel never touch ground again until I get shoot down, I had no problem in getting airborne.

Just my 0.02....Spit drivers should contribute with $2 at least

Toad · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2003, 10:09:28 AM »

I was referring to this:

Quote

auto climb does not have enough aeleron authority to counter it

Quote

needs a good dose of right aileron trim

It does drift left on autopilot in climb.

However, I've been able to easily fly it manually using just rudder to stop the drift. Made a post in the other AH2 forum about that.

Perhaps the "old" autopilot routine has difficulty with the new FM. Changes beget changes; don't know if the AH2 A/P is the same as the AH1 A/P.

But it doesn't "need aileron trim"; if anything, it needs rudder (not rudder trim) INPUT.

I'm sure HT will look into it.