The AH Ecosystem

[dtango]

mars01:

I was incorrect in saying it was both, in that your are definitely not furballing. Furballing would be the intent to get up join a hornets nest and exercise extreme AtoA combat skills.

The point of driving on toward the next enemy field with light fighters is to induce a fight and use extreme AtoA skills.  It's really interesting- you're claiming that this is a strat game while we've actually had folks leave the squad because this was all furballing to them.

The species you're breaking down don't work either.  E.g. - base defense- so is this strat or furballing?  It's both is it not?  People up from a base to defend a base (strat) and then engage in AtoA combat (furball).

Of course you're also changing your definition of a furball now as well from two large groups of aircraft clashing to extreme AtoA combat.  So what is the definition of a furball again?

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[nopoop]

The exchange of opinions in this ongoing discussion are FAR too polite.

Let's see if we can do better.. K ??

Continue.

[Montezuma]

You're the white, foamy, pond-scum of the AH Ecosystem.

[dtango]

Hehe, nopoop at the bottom of the food chain, Shane at the top of the food chain?  Hmmm something is strangely wrong with this ecosystem !

The game is full of concessions.. there is no penalty for taking the fastest and latest planes up. if you do so then you allready start with a huge advantage. If you spred the fields apart then you give these planes an even larger advantage. close fields allow the early war and slow planes a place in the game.

nopoop - after your last statement you're really going to love this ...

lazs: That's a great statement.  I think it says a lot and if one attempts to follow the ecosystem metaphor approach to maps would need to be an issue that should be seriously considered.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[lazs2]

dtango... I flew many tours in the -1a and I still fly the yak and 51b on occassion... I have even taken up a tempest once in a while to chase down milkrunning 51's when i was REALLY bored.

soo... I am making a serious suggestion... I would suggest that maybe your/your squadrons perspective is not as good as it could be at this point...

I am seriously suggesting that you and your squad fly spit 5/ fm2 hurri/ type planes for 2 tours.  

I am not making any guess's or being at all snide... this is a serious suggestion.   I believe that you would have a much better picture of what we are talking about and would be EXTREMELY interested in your opinions after the two tours.

I made the same suggestion to the 13th long ago.   I don't expect anything like those results but i do expect some perspective.   2 tours would give 2 shots at all maps in slow planes.

lazs

[dtango]

Maybe sometime lazs .  I enjoy the P-51 too much.  What I enjoy even more is helping my squaddies get better in it.  I'll let you know if I do try your suggestion.  The P-40 is the 412th's alternate plane in honor of Wail's uncle who flew in Burma and I've toyed with the idea of flying that thing exclusively for awhile.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by dtango
In reference to the recent rash of posts on this BBS on the eternal debate regarding maps, arenas, and game play styles I thought I would post a perspective for consideration.

In my opinion a better model to describe how the AH Main Arena functions is that of an ecosystem.  An ecosystem is a community of different species interdependent on each other that interact together with their non-living environment to form a stable system.
 
I believe the real key for a successful map or arena is to create battlefield ecosystem that produces a critical mass of predators and prey creating and sustaining a concentration of numbers that fosters the formation of localized pitched battles.

Like any ecosysem a diversity of species (a diversity of gameplay styles for us) is a key enabler in creating critical mass and therefore sustaining the ecosystem.  For instance players trying to take a base start the cycle of creating critical mass by drawing the various other types of game play species out forming a battlefield where a variety of great fights can be found.  In another example players interested in quick low level turn fights generate the critical mass that draws out all the other species to the contest.  In both cases a population of various types of predator and prey show up to form the basis of the "food chain" that make up the ecosystem.


Thoughts?

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Interesting analogy, tango.  However, no map can remedy what happens to a jaguar that chooses to swim across a stream filled with pirana.

Until HTC implements a way to balance numbers, all maps will fail to provide maximum enjoyment to all.

curly

[mars01]

Originally posted by: dtango
It's really interesting- you're claiming that this is a strat game while we've actually had folks leave the squad because this was all furballing to them.

Ok so they're stupidity makes it right?  That's not furballing and you know it.

Originally posted by: dtango
The species you're breaking down don't work either. E.g. - base defense- so is this strat or furballing? It's both is it not? People up from a base to defend a base (strat) and then engage in AtoA combat (furball).

Just because there is AtoA combat doesn't make it a furball.  This is your flaw in your argument.  A furball is a large group of nearly equal friendlies and opponents only interested in extreme AtoA combat.  They up from their respective bases and fight.  They don't pork fuel or kill strat, they don't need to defend their base because the players are there to fight not vulch.  Now I agree that alot of furballs end up pushing to the enemies base and sooner or later a vulch ensues.  Then this is no longer furballing, this is vulching and usually ends up as a base cap, that sooner or later ends up with a base capture.  This would be an example of a furball gone bad that ends up as strat.  On the other hand there are alot of furballs where this is not the case and the fight stays over neutral territory between the enemy bases for hours.

Originally posted by: dtango
Of course you're also changing your definition of a furball now as well from two large groups of aircraft clashing to extreme AtoA combat. So what is the definition of a furball again?

Uh, you dont have extreme AtoA without a furball.  Two guys spiraling for half an hour is a good fight, but it is hardly extreme AtoA.  More like just plain AtoA combat.  I would classify extreme AtoA combat as two large, equally numbered groups(enemy and friendlys) all fighting in a single mass hornets nest.  Of course that was my original definition.

[dtango]

curly - interesting perspective on the numbers balance, and agreed that imbalance in numbers is an issue as is being able to dynamically size maps to the numbers online.  I certainly don't have a solution for any of this !  Just throwing out a different lense for people to look at this if they are considering map making etc.

mars01 - no point debating what a furball is or isn't since my assertion to begin with is that you will find different people have different definitions of what constitutes a furball.  All this goes back to my opinion that lumping people either as strat or furballers is too simplistic of a breakdown.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[humble]

Originally posted by Shane
just as long as most of you know your position is below me in the AH foodchain.

Shane,

you shouldnt let your grandma do that to you:rolleyes: