Author Topic: furball vs porked fuel: simple fix  (Read 2129 times)

Offline SlapShot

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2004, 04:42:18 PM »
Connected now ... <> RHINO
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Offline simshell

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2004, 06:54:21 PM »
i disagree with making the fuel burn rate lower

its this high because fighters that could not fly far should be showen in the game a LA7 could not fly very far at all in real life and i think that should show in this game  

i agree about the making the goons and m3's have a bigger inpact on the time it takes for the fuel to come back up

right now its just dumb it takes 1 dweeb a few gun passes to down everthing and it takes 4 to 5 goons to bring it back up

i think it should be 2 goons
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Offline Delirium

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2004, 07:36:53 AM »
Simshell, simply put it takes 1 guy in a P51 Mustang 30 seconds to drop a field to 25% and it takes 10x as long to resupply it back to where it was.

Whats the fun in porking fuel? Those same fuel tanks are offline, the dogfights aren't.

I'd be happy with the fuel burn decreased or (better yet) increase the hardness of fuel to the hardness of a hanger. I have YET to see any gun cams of fuel tanks being so obviously placed around a field as they are in AH.

Yes, I can see it now...

"Gentmen, good morning. Today, you are taking part in the greatest mission in the history of the USAAF. The target for today is... fuel tanks! No, no, no... we will not be hitting a refinery but instead we'll hit fuel at every field in Europe. This way we'll only need about 50 of you, the rest turn in your wings and go into the infantry.



Alright pilots, come in at 15k, and make 3-4 passes upon the fuel tanks they have laid across their airfield with such obvious disregard and they will be grounded. Sure, they can send in supplies but we'll just send you in later, no big deal. Its not like they are ever going to hide the fuel, they'll just rebuild those same tanks.

Dismissed!"
Delirium
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Offline kevykev56

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2004, 09:23:55 AM »
I believe this may have been buried in the mess from earlier.  I would like to repost this...any thought on this as a somewhat fix?

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I have no problems with having the fuel come up at a random spot on the field and your ability to see the fuel not until you are at a low and relatively close say 1.5-2k away. Inside ack range would be good. That would require someone to kill ack before diving in on fuel (more realistic in my book). It would decrease the effectiveness of bombing drastically!


Also it would be nice to see more field ack and a shorter down time for the field ack. I love to pork but it is too easy and should be a bit more challenging. It would take a concerted effort to take out fuel and not a rogue pilot.


RHIN0
RHIN0 Retired C.O. Sick Puppies Squadron

Offline mars01

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2004, 10:15:40 AM »
Glad to see youve come around RHINO,

The problem is HTC is never going to change anything that would require a programming mod (what you would like to see above) in the current AHI.  They could however change the fuel burn very easily for the arena and that is what leitwolf was saying.

Offline kevykev56

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2004, 12:35:50 PM »
Right, I understand the not changing the program as it stands now "VOX still has issues with no change". However it would be nice if voices were heard as the new AH2 is still in production/final development. I havent had a chance to play it much. Is this something that will be addressed in the future to prevent this situation?

Quote
Glad to see youve come around RHINO,


Hmm... I still believe in porking..:rolleyes:
RHIN0 Retired C.O. Sick Puppies Squadron

Offline SlapShot

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2004, 01:37:43 PM »
Hmm... I still believe in porking.. :rolleyes:

Yes ... I noticed ... but at least you are in agreement that it needs to be harder to actually "pork". If "pork"ing required much more skill and a concerted effort, than what we have at the moment ... I probably would not be as concerned about as I am now.

I say fuel needs to be hardened to at least 500-1000 lbs of equvialent ordinance to be destroyed.
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Offline simshell

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2004, 03:44:29 PM »
the fuel burn rate is this high because they want to simulate the short range of the LA7 109E-4 and many other aircraft that had short range


if you lower the burn rate

the short range fighters would not have to worry about fuel anymore which does not simulate the real planes weakness of range :rolleyes:
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Offline Red Tail 444

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2004, 04:19:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kevykev56
why cant we just use what was actually available during the war. RHIN0


It's called the CT...:cool:

Offline kevykev56

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2004, 11:18:03 PM »
Quote
It's called the CT...



I love the CT, Only thing missing there that was really in the war...Pilots, and just people in general.

RHIN0
RHIN0 Retired C.O. Sick Puppies Squadron

Offline Shiva

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2004, 12:28:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by simshell
i agree about the making the goons and m3's have a bigger inpact on the time it takes for the fuel to come back up


There's a simple way to address the problem for goons... If you've got supplies, allow goon formations. Hell, just allow formations regardless of what a goon is carrying -- they're vulnerable enough already; given the limitations on drones following the lead plane, you're pretty much just going to pad someone's score if they bounce you in a goon formation.

Offline Hap

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2004, 01:21:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mars01
The Drive - thats easy they suck at ACM and can't fight.  They hate the people that are having fun fighting.  They have to ruin the fun for the people that want to fight.


mars, i'm sure you're correct for some but not all.  and i suppose not many as well.  

the "drive" stems from a desire to win the war.  shooting down a pilot, 1 of the game's resources, really makes no sense from a tactical point of view unless they be a goon, i think.  

if you can expend time destroying something that stays dead for 2 hrs versus a pilot who stays ded for 1 second, from the pov of wanting to win the war, there's no choice.

as to why folks play, they play for fun.  as to how they play, to each their own.  

to make the game suit your preferences, all you need do is convince dale to make fuel unporkable.  done deal.

on the help menu, the very 1st page lays out the strat system which i think mimics well enough what real nations must master to wage war effectively.  (awful notion isn't it)  so, here's the game for good or ill copying fairly well real war.  rommel lost his supply line in africa and the theater closed on germany.

the 1 aspect of real war that the game does not replicate is getting killed and a country having to come up with trained and able soldiers.  that also, with manufacturing reduction and/or destruction of base resources, accounts for just about the whole deal in aces high.

as far as your "they suck at acm and can't fight."  i'm sure for some, maybe many your're spot on.  for many, you're not.

all in all, your beef should be with hitech and co.  you telling us, won't change our tactics.  talk to the folk who can.  if they won't do it your way, why complain?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2004, 01:26:28 PM by Hap »

Offline Morpheus

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2004, 02:07:13 PM »
MMMMMMMMMMMM

Porkers... The other white meat :D
If you don't receive Jesus Christ, you don't receive the gift of righteousness.

Be A WARRIOR NOT A WORRIER!

Offline Kweassa

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2004, 02:22:37 PM »
The "drive" comes from the fact that winning the war lays heavily into people's minds, but doing the job to help your country win is very easy as long as you don't care about scores.

 Average or less skilled pilots who are not so confident with their skills, still want to make themselves useful. They want to help, and become a part of something. Their hearts are in good place.

 Unfortunately, the motivation towards learning proper methods and skill is heavily outweighed by temptations to help your country as immediately as possible.

 Would fuel porking be so easy if everybody took the time to do it correctly?

 To kill field strats in an ideal manner one must;

1) Organize people(which is hard most of the times)
2) Analyze enemy activity(needed for planning flightpath)
3) Making decisions as to continue with the attack or abort(if enemy field is heavily defended, going into an attack run without lot of friendly fighters would be suicidal)
4) Start attack runs from appropriate altitudes(which takes time)
5) Execute proper dive bombing, pulling out from a safe distance/alt(which makes the accuracy suffer)

 The irony of fighting off unskilled jabo pilots is, they are so unpredictable, that their attacks cannot be stopped.

 Sure, they don't intend to die on purpose, but nine times out of ten, their lacking methods will end up getting themselves killed in the process. But the problem is, while the death of a pilot is short, and has no profound price to pay, the effect of their senseless attack is devastating.


 Shouldn't the MA at least encourage pilots to indulge deeper into the fun and joy of learning?

 ....

 The 'deal', was set in the days when AH was still young. It's a new AH MA now, a new era.

 It's an era where the trained experts are few, and don't make any large impact in the warring states, as compared to the days when MA was small, where the elites of famed squads would fight other elites, and it was the fight which was important, rather than the outcome of the war.

 Now, it's a whole new era of the norm - some 200 pilots per each countries, among them only a handful can be called "skilled".

 Most are average grade pilots who knows only the basic concepts of dogfighting and bombing, but lacks practice and training. Those guys make the MA now. And that's one of the reasons why the veterans complain that they don't see any real fights anymore.

 ....

 "Real war" is upon us guys, whether we like it or not. It's about which country has more manpower, the large scale fights of largely average people, rather than the "duel" type of mentality seen in the early days of MA. "My country winning", is a lot more  important than itused to be.

 Suggesting a change which forces the gameplay of the MA going back into the early days is retro, but that doesn't mean it should stay as it is.

 Currently, the MA is sort of like a real war in that "average soldiers" dictate the outcome of the war than a few handful elites. But in another sense, it lacks some of the aspects of the "real war" which at least forced the average skilled soldiers into certain amount of discipline and organized activity.

 Death means nothing in virtuality, so fear means also nothing. People just group hordes of people and do what they do in the fastest way they can - an organized group attack is actually less effective than chaotic kamikazes, in this sort of environment! Taking time to learn skills to enjoy the full extent of what the game offers - the "learning curve" - is broken!!

 In that sense, suggestions to implement different strat systems is valid - it's not just about doing away with the current tendency of MA because you personally hate it. It's about a more subtle system which can encourage the people to learn the proper ways and methods of combat.

 The old days of AH MA was like medieval ages, where a group of chosen blue-bloods engaged in duel like fights. The real war is different in that it mobilizes huge forces of amateuer soldiers and trains them for effective use.

 The current MA, is like a modern state war where many people are mobilized and huge armies gathered, but the strat system being primitive pushes the countries to just push everyone into a single battlefield where tactics remain in the stone ages. All the possible fun factor is killed, and replaced by the motive to win..and people no longer the fun of simulated combat they used to.

 Suggesting a better strat system, is suggesting to bring back some of the combat techniques and disciplines once needed in the old days, without reverting the arena into the old days.

Offline Hap

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furball vs porked fuel: simple fix
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2004, 02:43:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Suggesting a better strat system, is suggesting to bring back some of the combat techniques and disciplines.


if you mean "how to" i agree.  i don't see the relation 'tween a "better strat stystem" and techniques and disciplines.