Author Topic: Czechs choose JAS 39 Gripen over F-16 (Read 1468 times)

Mini D · « **Reply #45 on:** December 19, 2003, 07:52:44 AM »

None were designed in the last 30 years. And... I don't believe the F-111 was in the last 30 years unless they bought it used or it was an EF-111. Same for the A-4 and F-104.

The F-14 and F-15 have been sold to how many countries? 2? Same for the F-5 (though I don't know the tail numbers on those... might be over 30 years too.)

MiniD

Scootter · « **Reply #46 on:** December 19, 2003, 08:03:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
None were designed in the last 30 years. And... I don't believe the F-111 was in the last 30 years unless they bought it used or it was an EF-111. Same for the A-4 and F-104.

The F-14 and F-15 have been sold to how many countries? 2? Same for the F-5 (though I don't know the tail numbers on those... might be over 30 years too.)

MiniD

Correct, I said in my post "exported in the last 30 years" as that was the jist of the discussion. Mora's post set the tone as to export.

Keep in mind aircraft are in design for many years as many as 10 or more before they are produced. The F-22 started on the drawing board in late 80's to replace the then fairly new F-15.
Back in the 50's design was much quicker, Kelly Johnson and team designed and built the F-104 in less then 2 years from concept to production (with the first few flights flown with the J-57 engine as the J-79 was not yet ready). You will need to check with the Ausseys on the F-111 as to if they bought them new or pre owned.
Regards

Mini D · « **Reply #47 on:** December 19, 2003, 09:03:41 AM »

I'd add "built" to that too scooter. Very few of the aircraft you listed with the exception of the trainers were built before '73. Maybe '75 for the F-111F (Think that's what Australia had). The F-14 and F-15 would be the two fighters built afterwards that have seen VERY limited "sales". The F-16 and F-18 are the only two fighters that have been available on the world market for the last 30 years.

MiniD

mora · « **Reply #48 on:** December 19, 2003, 12:12:25 PM »

AFAIK the number of F-15's exported to Israel and Saudi Arabia is in the hundreds. Also the last batch of F-104's was built in the mid 80's.

Mini D · « **Reply #49 on:** December 19, 2003, 12:26:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mora
AFAIK the number of F-15's exported to Israel and Saudi Arabia is in the hundreds. Also the last batch of F-104's was built in the mid 80's.

Saudi and Israel are the only two countries that have the 15's that I know of (Maybe Japan and SK too). Dunno who had the 14s but there weren't many of them. As for 104's... who the hell bought them?

And... I notice the F-111 and F5 portions have been dropped...

There's a reason I said last 30 years. Nitpick it all you want, but the only modern offered up have been the F-16 and F-18 with VERY FEW exceptions. Compare that to how many Mirages and Migs populate the air defenses of most countries and the whole "evil U.S. arms companies" thing is put into perspective.

MiniD

Nilsen · « **Reply #50 on:** December 19, 2003, 12:56:57 PM »

Iran had f14's and japan has f15's mora

mora · « **Reply #51 on:** December 19, 2003, 01:45:09 PM »

"Saudi and Israel are the only two countries that have the 15's that I know of (Maybe Japan and SK too). Dunno who had the 14s but there weren't many of them. As for 104's... who the hell bought them?"

79 F-14's to Iran. F-104 to NATO coutries in Europe, the last ones to Italy and maybe some others.

"And... I notice the F-111 and F5 portions have been dropped..."

Well I haven't dropped anything...

"There's a reason I said last 30 years. Nitpick it all you want, but the only modern offered up have been the F-16 and F-18 with VERY FEW exceptions. Compare that to how many Mirages and Migs populate the air defenses of most countries and the whole "evil U.S. arms companies" thing is put into perspective."

We seem to have a different outlook to this question. You seem to think that a sale of under 500 is insignificant and I don't.

Mini D · « **Reply #52 on:** December 19, 2003, 04:48:36 PM »

F-104's were transfers in the 80's. The last s model was made in 79... made by Fiat.

None of the fighters you listed are considered advanced fighters with the exception of the F-15 and F-14 which went to a grand total of 4 countries. Compare "all those sales" to F-16's and F-18s. It is insignificant and it matters that they were not available to everyone.

Besides... the statement was in regards to F-22 sales being hampered. It's completely irrelevant. The F-22 will not be geared towards the world market. We have specific fighters that are presented to the global market. Not the advanced aircraft. The F-16 and F-18 are pretty much it. If the best you can do is present aircraft sales from 20 years ago... you're really working towards proving my point yourself.

MiniD

ravells · « **Reply #53 on:** December 19, 2003, 05:47:44 PM »

crap plane...runs on aquivit.

RAvs

Maniac · « **Reply #54 on:** December 19, 2003, 05:49:16 PM »

The deal is not set yet... they want investments from swedish companys in Czechoslovakia if they decide on the JAS....

ravells · « **Reply #55 on:** December 19, 2003, 06:49:24 PM »

who needs fighters anyway?