P38 and the night of DOOM

[Zippatuh]

I logged on last night with a simple question in mind, what can the P38 do besides carry a lot of ordinance?  My first initial reaction was, it SUCKS ARSE!  I just could not find the grove in this aircraft.  I have flown it a hand full of times previously but again just for the munitions load.

Was I carrying to much fuel or should I have stayed horizontal and not gone vertical, I have no clue?  I was doing several different tests so to speak and was finding out that it was not carrying much strength in a co-altitude fight.  Hell, it didn’t even carry its weight with an N1K that was 2k below me who was able to climb without any problems right to my 6.  Now granted I didn’t try to avoid the N1K, I wanted to see how the 38 reacted compared to other aircraft I’m used to.  N1K probably thought that as I was level until the marker said 600 and closing rapidly.

I was never really in a good situation to make a good judgement.  Either it was 3v1 their advantage of 3v1 mine.  In either situation I was getting my bellybutton handed to me.

After more than a few sorties I decided to jump back in big blue where I promptly put her in the drink 3 times on CV take off.  I ended up making some of the same bad decisions in my hog that I did in the devil after I finally got it off the deck.  

So in short does the P38 suck, was I just having a bad night, or do I just suck in general.  Wait, don’t answer the last one  .

Anyway, anyone who has some P38 links or information on flying the thing properly can you post them please.

Thnx

Zippatuh

[Lephturn]

The 38 does not suck, it's just not the best at anything.  It's a decent all-around plane, but the problem is that in this plane set, there are many that are even better all-around fighters than the 38 is.

Bottom line is, you have to engage with an advantage... enough of an advantage.  The difficulty is that it's nasty compression means if you have too much advantage you can't engage effectively.  It's quite a challenge.  It does have enough useful attributes to be a deadly weapon, but it takes a lot of knowledge and skill to employ effectively.

So I don't think it sucks... I like it.  It's an awesome bird, truley unique.  It's challenging to fly and fight in, but it can get the job done, and when it does it's a very rewarding experience.

[Fester']

P-38 sucks if....

you try to fly it like a...

spit
n1k2
f4u
p51
yak
la5
la7
205

etc

if you are flying a less capable aircraft to the strengths of other types of aircraft you are going down in flames over and over

this is true for any aircraft but the less capable aircraft it is ten times moreso


p-38 rocks if and only if...

you fly it like a...

P-38


however P-38 does average if you fly it like a...

P-47
Fw190a
109g6

[Fatty]

I have fun in it, though what I'd really like to see is someone rerelease suncom's old dual throttle set as USB.  I had a POS analog version hooked up for a while, even with the 1/2 throttle spikes it was a blast flying the 38 with seperate throttle controls.

[skernsk]

I dubbed it

"The Fork - Tailed COFFIN"

[Westy MOL]

I would agree with you normally Lephturn but the P-38 does suck. I can't say it any other way. Like the 190's one ping dead engine, the P-38 has the one ping elevator removal. The compression settings on the 38 are either totally porked or, if it is right, then the settings on many other AH aircraft are off.
 In reality, not only is the AH '38' not the best at anything, it isn't really good at much at all if there are any enemy planes around.
 It's the one plane in the planeset (besides the N1K2) that I truly feel is way off and it's use (unlike the N1K2) suffers for it.

   Westy

[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]

[batdog]

Zip... I rem my squadies on your 38 down low last night. It seemed like you where flying it pretty well considering your situation.

 xBAT

[LePaul]

Hi Zip,

We had the very same discussion about a month ago in the aircraft forum.  I asked the same questions as you and was just as frustrated as you.  I've seen many guys really kick bellybutton flying the P-38 and anytime I jumped into it, I just couldn't seem to pull the same kind of magic out of it.  Like you, I'd used it largely to haul 2 1,000 pounders and rockets to JABO a field.  Air to air against anything was always fairly dismal.  I see boogey, I try to turn with boogey, boogey out turns me, parts of me catch fire, and into the chute I go.

Then I took some advice from the guys in the aircraft discussion.  I tried flying it as I would a fighter, without ordinance, and really light, like 25% gas and 1 drop tank.  What wowed me about this airplane up high (25K+) was the difference from where the white airseep needle is, vs the red one.  She's fast.  But, she also compresses really easy.  AT least that was what I've seen consistently.  Speed brakes/dive brakes, whatever they are, seem to do nothing.  But, with this in mind, if you do it right, you can pick your fights.  The mix of cannon and machine guns makes for a pretty deadly burst if you can time it right on an unsuspecting con.

However, probably the most annoying flaw this P-38 has is the 1 hit, both engines dead syndrome.  Especially near buffs or acks.  I've been 2k away from acks and buffs, heard the "ping" and suddenly both engines are windmilling.  No such magic bullets have been seen like that since the JFK assassination theory  

I've been trying really hard to love the p-38 too.  Its got a great climb.  Try it fairly lowly loaded on gas and up high for a bit.

Like you, I'll be interested to see what the P-38 gurus say here.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

P38 is far from sucking. Maybe I'm too used to the P47-D30 and P38 looks great to me. It turns very good, has a good gun package (don't expect the 2 ping wing off kabbom kill though). It's speed is descent too (lit bit more P47), and climb is comfortable.

I have no problem when I fly this bird. Off course it's very fragile, hey can't have everything  

on a side note, I noticed experienced pilots have no problem in any type of plane, people too much used to turnfighters always complain. I believe that those turn fighters give bad habits to their pilots, who end up betting everything on turn and gradually forget about using their head to defeat the other guy.

Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
 

[batdog]

One all inclusive word for the 38... SA. Well two words really  
 Pester Fester... He'll send ya some film give ya some tips just to make you leave him alone...lol.

xBAT

[Tac]

The only plane I have a trouble with is the N1k (of course) and the La7. I can handle the la7, it just takes a lot of work and luck (damn thing goes vertical better than me porked 38!   ). Yaks gimme a headache, they are small and hard to hit  


Fatty: I have that throttle. Here's how to fix that: Open the joystick and either use a soft brush and vacuum at low power and clean dust & grime (and yank the levers vigorously for 10 secs after that, repeat to make sure its all clean). Then go to best buy and get yourself the cheapest joystick possible (Cyborg 3D is wonderfully non-spiking and is $20!). Then get a USB joystick (I use MS FF2 and CH PRO pedals USB) and use it as your j-stick. As long as the USB stick uses ID #1, the stick attached to the TCS will not bother you. You do have to remap function in AH though  

The spikes will go away.

"the P-38 has the one ping elevator removal"

Eh? you confusing the tail booms with the elevator AGAIN westy?

"The compression settings on the 38 are either totally porked"

Its a bit off imo. But its sufferable for the time being. I think it should compress at higher speeds when below 20k.. about 480mph or so. Up high it should compress sooner. Also, ive had times at sea level when the plane compresses at 390 mph... extremely annoying.

Not to mention dive flaps that dont work (they do light a little bulb in the cockpit though) and the fowler flaps are off (I think HTC said ALL flaps in the game are not correct..drag or something).

One thing I would like to ask the experten (Widewing?   ) is if the 38 really went from 490 mph to 360 mph in level flight in only 3 seconds.  Many times I power dive and do a 5 degree climb or level trying to extend a bit and my speed drops to 360-400 (depending on alt..higher if at higher alt) extremely fast. Mach factor off too? Dunno, just find it odd this plane cant extend or zoom (not straight up but 30-45 degree up) for such a pathetic amount of time before it completely bleeds off its E (and it was renowned for its zoom ability). But again, this is speculation, I rest me case with the experten.

On a final thought, Lizzie and I went to the TA and did a test on the damage model of the plane... it takes 2-4 .50 cal rounds to completely ripp off a wingtip, 4-6 .50 cal to rip off the wing root, 1-2 .50 cal to smack the tail boom *both of them when hitting ONE of them* off , 2-3 .50 cal to rip out the tail stabilizer... 8-10 to make plane explode when hitting the nose (that was shocking!). And we found that if you hit the little stub that sticks out of the tail stabilizer, the plane will also blow up (what, we hit the self destruct mechanism?). We tried to fire some rounds between the tail booms to see if they went through. They didnt (albeit we still have to find a verra steep hill and park a 38 at its base.. the bullets may have been hitting the tail boom or rudders at an angle..but when we did fire, the pings we saw usually tore out the tail booms). Engine died in 2 pings.

Hitech, is the FM of some of the existing planes being revisited in the next version? A yes/no will suffice.

[Steven]

The three fighters I have been concentrating on are the F4UD, P-51B and the P38.  I've tried a few other airframes as well (you'll never get min a N1K or LA7 though) and the P38 seems to take a dispraportionate of damage to its engines.  I die lots and have a good feel for the different ways to lose your aircraft and rarely do I lose an engine in other aircraft.  In the P-38, three times out of four I will lose at least one engine from only one or very few hits.  This is compounded by the fact that the P-38 has a very weak tailplane in the game.  Also, my gunnery is poor in all aircraft but I'm much worse in the P-38 than all others and am not sure why because there is no convergence.  Anyone else see a difference in gunning?

-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels

[Lephturn]

I don't know enough to argue about the modelling... so I'll leave that to the more knowledgeable folks.

I took the 38 for a spin in tour 18.  Ok, I haven't had much time to fly this summer between work and other things, so I don't have a lot of time in it.  But still... I grabbed the 38 and went 11-4 K/d, and one of those deaths was a suicide run against a B-26.  Personally, I just found it was a nice all-around plane and I did pretty well in it.  Take that for whatever it's worth.  

I will say that I think Frenchy is on to something there.  We Jug pilots tend to do pretty well in it as Fester eluded too, since if you fly it like a Jug that can't dive, you'll do OK.  

[GRUNHERZ]

The P38 is the American 109G6. Its very nice all around but not great in any one thing.  It takes skill and patience to fly and win in over better performing opponents, basically every other plane in the arena one way or another cept the C202  .

[pdog_109]

The p38 sucks in all sims for this reason.
No dual engine throttle controls, not at least at your fingertips.
Goes like this.  Chop 1 engine and then full power on engine 2. Torque effects go crazy and nice tight turns. The p38 is easy to shoot down, its such a big target. I have never lost a fight to a p38 in a 205.