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Author Topic: F-4!  (Read 344 times)

Offline janneh

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F-4!
« on: December 17, 1999, 12:33:00 AM »
From news BBS:
"Natedog has been working on the Bf 109F-4 3d shape and only needs to finish the paint job on it. The paint scheme is JG2 for those interested."

 
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Offline Hristo

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F-4!
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 1999, 02:10:00 AM »
Franz is great, but in its time period, IMHO.

Guns are weak for late war planes, it is slow and Spit 9 can still outturn it (depends heavily on pilot though).

I believe this plane will get gang banged pretty often.

However, it might be decent at high alt, judging by WB modeling.

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Bugjam

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F-4!
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 1999, 03:23:00 AM »
Nice! It will be a serious underdog now but it will be followed by Spit 5, 190A4/A3, Hurri IIC etc. soon enough I hope.... we're getting RPS....  

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Offline juzz

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F-4!
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 1999, 07:38:00 AM »
Let me see - new planes will be "variants" of existing ones, hmmm...

P-51A ?
Bf109F-4
Spitfire Mk V, or how about LF.Vb? Fast rollrate, but bad performance at high alt.
Fw190A-3, 4 or 5? Not much difference really I suppose.
C.202

No Japanese or Russian plane(s)?!  
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Offline janneh

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F-4!
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 1999, 04:57:00 AM »
Hristo, You're right what comes to guns weakness. However I don't think F-4's will be "easy meat" in arena. Average pilot should managed to fight in it, great low speed handling (who ever needs speed ?   and excellent vertical maneuverability. Of course, according to WB FM.
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Offline Hristo

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F-4!
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 1999, 09:53:00 AM »
Just what I want to say, Janneh. It has remarkable maneuverability and low speed handling. Climbrate is great too. Very good plane for HTH duels. And for 1941.

But it lacks most important characteristics for the 1944 arena. Speed and one-pass-kill guns. Imagine it attacking a P 51D. Only if P 51 is low and slow, Franz has a chance, or if Pony driver is too confident and goes for TnB.

If P 51 dives away, it is gone. TnB in Arena is always risky, because someone else always comes.

109F will be caught all the time, and will be forced to fight at disadvantage. It can only climb away, but that type of escape is the hardest one, and rarely works.

But then again, if flown in pairs...who knows.

These are just my opinions, I would like to be wrong though  
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Offline janneh

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F-4!
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 1999, 11:14:00 AM »
Well, it really doesn't matter in what plane you are, if P-51 decides to leave, it leaves  
Anyway, your one-pass-kill theory is correct, when talking about BnZ or just purely surprise (rarely, unless if he's afk  
But I totally agree with You, F-4 isn't a superb fighter on late war. Well, it IS, if someone, who knows how to fly it, flies it, I've seen it sooo many times in WB, when I flew as my Gruppenkommandeur wingman. I wish I'll some day could fly as he, oh well, dream on....
Looking forward to see AH's 109F-4  
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Offline Pyro

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F-4!
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 1999, 01:32:00 PM »
Turn rate can be utilized much better in an arena environment than in real life, so trading off some firepower and/or performance may result in something better for you depending upon your fighting style.  By offering enough variants of the same plane, you can find the handling, firepower, performance, tradeoff that suits you best.  A good diversity of variants is also a big benefit to scenarios and other events.



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Offline Hristo

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F-4!
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 1999, 01:30:00 AM »
Might be nice tho, for opposition would never know if the 109 they face is a good TnB Franz, or a late war powerful Gustav. Paint scheme wouldn't be all that different from our G-10, right ?

My greatest complaint on WB Franz was its fragility, however, not the performance or firepower. Too many times a quick snapshot from Spit ended the duel.

Also, since many AH planes differ in performances to the WB counterparts, it would be very interesting to see how Franz turns out.

But then again, the correct modeling of the downstairs maid would be even more interesting  
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Offline Sascha JG 77

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F-4!
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 1999, 03:44:00 AM »
As far as I know, the F-4 came with different armements, the WB variant (2x 7,9mm MGs + 1x 20mm 151/20) being the weakest.
One gun package I read about was this:

2x 7,9 mm MGs in the cowl
1x 20 mm 151/20 in the nose
2x 151/15 mm in the wings

In "Fighter Aces of the Luftwaffe" (the one by Toliver) there's an original kill report by Adolf Galland, for a Spit 5, that he shot down in a 109 F-4 (or F-7, not sure here..)

The report is real thorough (german bureaucracy, you know?   ) and it mentiones all guns and ammo types used in the attack. If I remember correctly, his 109 was indeed equipped with the above gun package.

Since AH models different gun loadouts (thank god!), I'm pretty confident we'll see more than just the loadout known from the WB 109 F.


Sascha

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-kier-

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F-4!
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 1999, 07:52:00 AM »
The 109F is widely recognized as one of the weakest armed variants of the series. And while adding armament packs to the wings probably did happen, the sparkling performance would be affected adversely.  
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Offline janneh

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F-4!
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 1999, 10:09:00 AM »
Additional cannons in wings will make 109F-4 to 109G6/R6 = FM like a pregnant cow(TM).
Althought F could use more firepower, I'm sure there wasn't available variant, which was equipped with 13mm MG's (pls, someone say; YES THERE WAS!) HEY, atleast I tried  

WB's 109F really was one of those "one-ping-lose-a-wing" planes,almost like Zero.
Franz is the best plane in one thing; getting assists  
Kills, however, are different story...

I loved WB's 109F FM, it felt so light to fly, climbed, looped, wingovered really good, but perhaps the most important thing, guns were way too weak. In a word, great plane for aerobatics, but not for airwar, LOL !!!
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Offline janneh

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F-4!
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 1999, 12:11:00 PM »
oh, and another thing. It could be just me, but IMO fights are getting higher and higher all the time and it's quite hard to do any TnB at 25k+ alts. Now this could be Franz's strong area, hi alt fights ?
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Offline Hristo

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F-4!
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 1999, 02:13:00 PM »
Yes, Janneh, stratosphere TnB might be good for Franz  

Now where's that GM 1 gadget ?  
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Offline Minotaur

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F-4!
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 1999, 03:36:00 PM »
Please excuse my interuption to this thread.  The information is very interesting.

A quick question.

Wasn't the F-4 a, twin propulsion, heavy fighter with the A/C design centering on its ablity to fire A2A missiles and not its ability to dogfight?    

BTW, I hope you get the Me109-F4 soon.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Mino

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 12-20-1999).]
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