While I'm on the the subject of icons

[Kweassa]

Guys, what about this?

1) Training your eye on an object far away, but which you already know is there.. and 2) scanning through the empty void of the sky and lush green terrain, not knowing what is out there and where it will manifest - won't this make some considerable differences?

 I never been inside of a cockpit, but since all men of my country are conscripted for military service, I've been through some basic combat training through the mountain terrains - I'm sure the open sky is a lot different from bushes and forests, but what I've experienced is this: when you are told a certain unit is placed where, in what position, you look for them deliberately when you pass the place. You can easily spot ambush devices and junkets and etc.

 However, when you are not told what would be where, and you must prepare for a clandestine meeting with the other unit, I really had no idea where what would show up, even when the soldiers of other units are as close as within 100m distance.

 Same thing with AH - I see the dot dar, know where the enemy is, and easily spot him from out very far, even with the limited pixels and dots. But when the dar is out, while scanning around I miss dots that are clearly visible(if I train my eyes on them), and sometimes get bounced.

 Would it be the same - being able to tell all the details, immediately recognizing the position of enemy planes from far out, if you have no knowledge but the general heading and altitude the radar operators give you?

[Maniac]

Realistic? this is a computer game folks...

Remove the Icons for enemy ACīs and keep them for friendly ACīs....

[Toad]

I think the gulf is just too wide.

[Kweassa]

Maniac, sometimes there really is a need for 'selective realism'.

 I've flown a lot of no-icon games in Forgotten Battles, as its graphics detail level actually makes it possible to spot enemies at certain distances even without icons.

 The problem is, the fight becomes realistic, yes, but the fun factor keeps on dropping, while nervousness, jumpiness, and frustration builds.

 ....

 There are some undeniable pros to no-icon settings, yes. If anyone wants to experience the typical WW2 battle in the style of "as real as it gets", then play no-icon games in FB.

 The meaning of tactics and communication is whole lot different in FB. Why it is deemed "80% of those who were shot down never even saw their attacker", you begin to understand.

 Altitude literally becomes a life line, as when you are attacked by an enemy you did not see, the chances are, there won't be any ACM contest as in AH. It's either a call for help immediately and start a luftberry circle, or go into a dive and hope you outrun him(where ever he is).

 Sudden strikes on your plane, important parts are damaged and failing, and in dismay you look around your 5, 6, 7 oc and see nothing there. You wiggle the plane to see where the enemy came from, or where he went off to, but since you never saw him coming, the odds are you'll never be able to spot where he went, even if you survive his first pass.

 While you are wiggling around frantically to spot where the heck he went, second enemy plane swoops down and shoots at you. Bam! With two passes you are dead, and you couldn't even see what was happening to you. The sensation of total helplessness is really something. Most of those attackers, you know you can outmaneuver and shoot him down in 1vs1 fight. In AH, BnZ passes can be easily anticipated and taken advantage of. Well, not in FB.

 Also, having to swing your head around to see just where the enemy is, is really cool. When somebody is behind you in a chase, if you are careless you will lose sight of him, and will not be able to find him until he shoots you down. This sort of thing almost never happens in AH - the icons are there to help you.

 ...


 But the problem is, in that kind of environment, disorganization and loose teamplay literally kills the gameplay. While one pilot flies around some 30~40 minutes without meeting a single enemy, the other pilot is getting shot down. Unless in an organized event like the VOW, having a no-icon game in a fast-paced gameplay room is a disaster - it gets too real!

 In about 10 sorties you will get to meet a couple of enemies, and the odds are, you won't finish that fight. After one guy extends, its the massive void again, floating around until the fuel warning lamp lights up, and rtbing to another kill-less sortie.

 Yeah, that's realism alright. But unless every participant is willing to organize themselves in a realistic manner - as in squad strengths, communication procedures, prompt reporting of enemy contact, propmt reporting of combat situations, strictly disciplined leader/wingman tactics and etc etc.. - it doesn't work when people are loosely gathered around as in AH.