Free Babylon 5 sim released

[Sandman]

The link is blank.

[Frogm4n]

udet, it is a sci fi space game using a newtonian engine. Im sorry you cannot grasp that. Go play a game called Jumpgate, its a free download.

[udet]

no frogbrain, it's you who does not comprehend what I'm saying: Newtonian mechanics without  technological gimmics contrived by the creators of the game/movie, as I specified in my previous post, cannot be applied to a space combat game. Try Orbiter and you'll see how physics and engines based on momentum transfer work, and why there can be no combat as we grasp it today between spaceships.

[Octavius]

udet, why not?

In your example you throw out a number and assume said spaceships/objects/whatever happen to be traveling at a huge velocity.  Why?  Did you develop this game?  Did you create Babylon 5?  Who says one needs to make radical maneuvers such as a 180 at 32,000 ft/s?  They, the developers, can do whatever they want with their physics system.  Even if your spaceship traveling at X m/s with a mass of Y kg pulls a 180 and needs Z newtons of force to move the opposite way.  Whats wrong with that?

Try Orbiter and you'll see how physics and engines based on momentum transfer work, and why there can be no combat as we grasp it today between spaceships

Your argument assumes we agree with your definition of 'space combat'.

[Nashwan]

I think Frontier Elite used proper Newtonian mechanics (apart from hyperspace jumps, etc).

Udet, you are assuming a combat between ships with a large difference in relative velocities. If one ship roughly equalises velocity with the other, then space combat with Newtonian physics is possible. If you're both doing 32,000ft/sec, then you don't need to change your vector 180 deg, you can simply accelerate up to 33,000ft/sec, or down to 31,000ft/sec, and you will pull away from, or close on, the other ship.

That's the way it worked in Frontier Elite. A freighter would spend a couple of days accelerating in towards a planet, and a faster ship would match velocity with him in that time, and initiate combat.

Of course, how you deal with weapons is a different matter.

[Chairboy]

Udet, if you re-read my post, you'll see that you're talking about situation 1 (the slashing, high speed pass attack) when Babylon 5 is about situation 3 (the low relative speed attack).  There's no need for them to accelerate for long distances because of the jumpgates I talked about.  

You're trying to cram round pegs into square holes.  Do you know what a straw man argument is?

[udet]

Originally posted by GScholz
Ok, for those of you who haven't seen B5: The fighters (which you fly in the sim) are not deep space faring craft. They are carried by huge capital ships (which have "jumpdrives"), and used as a short-range defensive force against missiles and enemy fighters. The relative speeds in most of the battles in B5 are not much more than jet fighter combat today, and in some cases more like WWII.

yeah and your targets will gladly stay at low speeds instead of getting the hell out of there. Well, whatever, physics might be respected, common sense is not. Assuming those spacecraft want to, oh my, orbit a planet. How fast will they have to go?

What you guys are describing works in the contrived B5 universe, it could never happen in real life, therefore by default Newtonian physics do not aspply either.

[Chairboy]

Howdy Udet,

I have to imagine that you're unfamiliar with basic science and military strategy.  Either that, or you're putting us all on.

Since B5 had chokepoints (static Jumpgates stationed at Lagrange points), there was no need to defend wide swaths of space against attack.  If an enemy wanted to, they could jump into the outside of the solar system and accelerate inwards, but then they would have a very limited opportunity to attack and would have no abillity to hold the position they took.  It's a legitamate tactic, and there were examples in the series where people did exactly that, but most of the time they did the low relative speed combat because they needed to actually engage and destroy their targets, not just run past them.

In regards to escape, that was easy, and the only times people were unable to escape from a fight was when the enemy used the recharge time of their jump systems against them (eg, launching a sneak attack on a ship right after it jumped in, using previous knowledge of its arrival) or when the fight was in close proximity to a gravity well.

All of the combat in B5 was based on real newtonian physics.  They had limited fuel supplies, and there were no free lunches in regards to kinetic energy.

So just to be clear, you're arguing from a position of ignorance (because you don't know anything about B5).  Also, your argument is posited upon a pretty silly assumption (namely, that it's not possible to fight in space using real physics).

Almost all of the fighting is done at Lagrange points....  do you understand what that is?  I assume you don't because you keep trying to stuff figures like 32k fps into the conversation.

[Wolfala]

On a side note...rarely do I get the Fury above 500 m/s.

[jigsaw]

Toss the newtonian and use bernoullis for the game.

[Fishu]

I don't think it's proper time yet to talk about that what is and what is not possible in the space, after all we haven't even reached the age of sloops what comes to space.
We're still shore fishin' in the space, so we don't really know all about it or what new technology could be used in space, as we're still developing it.