Author Topic: I need a WWII photo with contrails.  (Read 1154 times)

Offline Hawklore

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2003, 02:28:56 PM »
Let'em think that, my dad has one at work too..
« Last Edit: December 29, 2003, 02:32:18 PM by Hawklore »
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
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Offline Frogm4n

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2003, 02:36:26 PM »
just have your friend commited.

Offline miko2d

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2003, 02:44:54 PM »
Frogm4n: just have your friend commited.

 At least he does not insist that a government can create wealth by printing money - like most other peole seem to...

 miko

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2003, 03:36:11 PM »
Quote
Now, Stuart, if you look at the soil around any large US city, with a big undeground homosexual population, Des Moines, Iowa, for example. Look at the soil around Des Moines, Stuart. You can't build on it; you can't grow anything in it. The government says it's due to poor farming. But I know what's really going on, Stuart. I know it's the queers. They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay Martians, I swear to God.


-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Karnak

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2003, 03:57:28 PM »
Hawker238,

Yes, that was it.  I'd forgotten the origins of that report.



Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Frogm4n: just have your friend commited.

 At least he does not insist that a government can create wealth by printing money - like most other peole seem to...

 miko


Most people?

I've never met anyone who wasn't already a confirmed idiot (and I haven't met that many of those) who thought this was true.

Children frequently do, but not adults.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline FUNKED1

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2003, 04:42:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
No its the other way around. While the clouds whiteness reflects some from the sun, it reflects many times more from the earth. The polar caps are the "good" reflectors, while the clouds are the "bad" reflectors because the clouds tend to keep the heat inside the atmosphere.


Actually (from a grad seminar I attended) I think it's not clear which way it works (cooling or heating) and there are plenty of scientists on either side of the argument.  Climate modeling seems to be a very inexact field.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2003, 04:46:08 PM by FUNKED1 »

Offline miko2d

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2003, 07:30:22 PM »
Karnak: Most people?
I've never met anyone who wasn't already a confirmed idiot (and I haven't met that many of those) who thought this was true.


 Oh, come on. Ask people is it good that Federal Reserve keeps interest rates low - how many people will tell you it's terrible? One out of a hundred? A thousand?


FUNKED1: I think it's not clear which way it works (cooling or heating)

 Sunny day - hot. Cloudy day - cool. those scientists should get out more.


 miko

Offline cpxxx

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2003, 09:03:30 PM »
Getting back to the chemtrails thing. When I went on one of their forums to ridicule them. They accused me of being one of those foreign mercenary pilots hired by the US government to spray the American people. Yes, really! (Actually I was turned down for the job  sssh!)

When you read their websites the pseudo scientific babble they write is quite amazing. The main instigator seems to be one Clifford E Carnicom.  He seems to be their guru. You can't talk them out of it because they have an answer for everything. So it may be too late for your friend.  

Having said that they sure have some nice pictures of contrails.  The basic truth that most contrails are clustered together because aircraft fly the airways is lost on them. Not to mention the fact that anything sprayed at height would drift scores if not hundreds of miles before touching down is also a mystery to them.

It all just proves my theory that even after one hundred years of aviation it's still a mystery to most people and that at heart many people are simply superstitious peasants.  People don't change really. Ignorance and stupidity is genetic.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2003, 09:05:22 PM »
I swear the scientists said they noticed it got a little cooler during those couple of days when air travel was extremely restricted.
-SW

Offline midnight Target

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2003, 09:42:59 PM »
Kind of a corallary to Ocham's razor:

If you hear hoofbeats it's probably horses.

Some people will still insist however, that there are Zebras coming, and will refuse to turn around to confirm it.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2003, 05:42:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

 Sunny day - hot. Cloudy day - cool. those scientists should get out more.


Clear night: cold
Cloudy night: warm

Maybe we should acknowledge the fact that "those scientists" knows a hell of a lot more about this than us and leave it at that?

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2003, 05:46:02 AM »
But the real problem with aircraft isnt really the contrails they are leaving and that effect on the climate.

The real problem with aircraft is that they are travelling in the higher parts of the atmosphere (cant remember exactly what layer they normally use) and eject their engine exhausts right into that part of the atmosphere. That is very not-good for the atmosphere.

Offline Ping

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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2003, 06:44:08 AM »
Yur right Hortlund. The military jets are the worst apparantly.
Its supposed to have an increased effect of damaging the Ozone layer.
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline miko2d

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2003, 10:57:27 AM »
Hortlund: Clear night: cold
Cloudy night: warm


 True. But cloudless hotter day/colder night may have the same average temperature as cloudy cooler day/warmer night.


 Actually, this is an issue very indicative of how much confusion is there.
 It's not necessarily the water "clouds" that trap all the heat. Water molecules - which occasionally form clouds - act as heat-traping greenhouse gasses even in vapor form, not just as droplets.

 Some confuse "less clouds" with "less water" in the athmosphere or just do not differentiate between water and cloud effects. The absense of the clouds does not always mean athmosphere is devoid of water. It may be in an oversaturated state ready to form clouds.
 A plane makes pre-existing water condence but does not create water up there in significant amounts.

 Anyway, a particluar cloud can have both cooling or warming effects depending on its properties but on average for the all the clouds around the globe, cooling predominates.
 Which is natural, since temperartue raise causes more water to evaporate. That causes even more green-house effect, and so on untill all the water is evaporated - which is not the case. The positive feedback is obviously broken - by the fact that water condensed as clouds reflects heat more than it retains it due to green-house effect.


Maybe we should acknowledge the fact that "those scientists" knows a hell of a lot more about this than us and leave it at that?

 Maybe we should - if we only knew which ones know the facts, which ones are mistaken and which ones are pushing some radical political agenda regardless of the facts.

 When scientists are experimenting out of sight in their laboratories - I will gladly let them be.
 But once they start issuing political dictates that affect our lives drastically and change radically every few years to contradict the earlier "facts" - that makes them no more trustworthy than politicians.

 If a scientist is so right, why aren't his ideas making money for someone in the private sector where any idia survives on its merits?
 Why are they pushing ideas through government politics?

 Just because a guy thinks he knows something about upper athmosphere, that does not mean he knows squat about how to deal with a global climate change - or the upper athmosphere, for that matter.

 We are told that the "ozone hole" over Antarctic is caused by global warming while the incidences of that hole correspond to unusial coolings in the area.

 Academic scientists are notably ignorant in economics - which causes them discard some ideas. They would demand that humanity reduce our numbers to a fraction living in squalor when a simple and cheap solution would be to deal with the consequences rather than prevent them.

 The drastic increase in incidence of skin cancers in the last 50 years is not caused by athmospheric changes nearly as much as it is caused by clothes that show more skin and the fasion for tanned look.
 It would be far cheaper to tell people to cover their skin than to increase ozone in the athmosphere even if it was reduced.

 miko

Offline capt. apathy

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I need a WWII photo with contrails.
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2003, 11:10:54 AM »
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