G-10 how to???

[T1loady]

Ok so what is the big deal about the G-10.  I flew it around last night and hated it.  The guns are great and it climbs like a banchee, but i couldnt get the pig to turn at any high airspeed and the roll rate was nothing to write to mom about.  As for Boom and zoom with it, I compressed the damn thing every time. Any hints to this plane that a bunch of guys seem to love. So far in the quest to find my perfect plane (as said before, im trying to get away from the La-7) I really enjoy the Typhy.  The D-9 isnt bad but could use a couple pointers on it to..  Thanks for all the help you guys are giving me. I am trying to become a more well rounded pilot, not just a Jabo all the time. Jaboing seems to be the only thing I can do well all the time..

SkipNutz

[Furball]

well, i learned with 2 planes really.  La-7 taught me gunnery among other things, and Hurricane IIC taught me ACM and evasives.

I didnt pick these aircraft for that, i just flew what seemed to feel right  to me when i was a noob and it turned out quite nicely.

Maybe you would want to try them.  I do not run from fights in La-7 and i think thats where some may go wrong, i fly it very agressively.

[T1loady]

I have flow the LA-7 very well in past.  I have close to 100 kills in it this month,  but I am trying to get better in other aircraft...

SkipNutz

[Furball]

just checked, you may need to spend a bit more time on the La-7, you appear to be much better in the D-9; so it seems you may have the understanding of BnZ or cherrypicking sorted.

Try the Hurricane IIC, makes you need to improvise in order to get the shot off on fast opponents because its so slow.  Hurricanes are especially fun when defending against CV attackers.  You may die a lot but you will get the hang of it, and once you learn ACM you can use it in anything.

Not a shot at you, just trying to help.  If u see me online i will be more than willing to help you - although a lot of people will probably be more helpful than me!

[Batz]

The 109s will be heavy on the controls at about 640kmh.

All 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using their high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high-speed passes do not suit the 109's style. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes. The 109 can then climb back out and loop or climb away as necessary.

Turning in the 109 should be done at about 300-350 mph. The 109s have a decent instantaneous turn rate. This will allow you to get inside a breaking enemy in the early part of the turn. It is best not to follow an enemy through the turn.  Climbing into a yo yo would be best if you don’t get a guns solution. But if you do get sucked in the g10 has excellent acceleration. A slight nose down extension will allow you to regain speed quickly.

Also if get inside a breaking enemy unload your g's before you fire. What you want to do is guess/predict where the enemy will be then release stick pressure so you will have an easy deflection shot. Pulling g’s and firing will most likely be a waste of ammo because the enemy will be below your site line.

All 109's, regardless of version, share numerous traits:

Excellent climb rate
Good rudder response
Excellent performance between 12 and 22k
Above average low speed handling
Good negative-G handling
Good Acceleration
Below Average visibility from the cockpit
Not particularly "new pilot friendly"
Moderate to low ammunition supply
Heavy Controls above 640km/h
Mediocre durability

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Batz
The 109s will be heavy on the controls at about 640kmh.

All 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using their high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high-speed passes do not suit the 109's style. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes. The 109 can then climb back out and loop or climb away as necessary.

Turning in the 109 should be done at about 300-350 mph. The 109s have a decent instantaneous turn rate. This will allow you to get inside a breaking enemy in the early part of the turn. It is best not to follow an enemy through the turn.  Climbing into a yo yo would be best if you don’t get a guns solution. But if you do get sucked in the g10 has excellent acceleration. A slight nose down extension will allow you to regain speed quickly.

Also if get inside a breaking enemy unload your g's before you fire. What you want to do is guess/predict where the enemy will be then release stick pressure so you will have an easy deflection shot. Pulling g’s and firing will most likely be a waste of ammo because the enemy will be below your site line.

All 109's, regardless of version, share numerous traits:

Excellent climb rate
Good rudder response
Excellent performance between 12 and 22k
Above average low speed handling
Good negative-G handling
Good Acceleration
Below Average visibility from the cockpit
Not particularly "new pilot friendly"
Moderate to low ammunition supply
Heavy Controls above 640km/h
Mediocre durability

Very, very good description and assessment. Should be required reading by all n00bs wanting to try the 109.

My regards,

Widewing

[Kweassa]

The first step towards becoming a rounded-out pilot, begins by letting go of every spectacular advantage the plane provides, and assessing the exact level of your pure skill.

 Unlike other people I started the whole learning process with the Bf109. I absolutely love that plane. After I started getting some consistent success with the Bf109G-10, I was pretty smug about it, and tried out the lesser variants of the G-6 and the G-2.

 Man, that taught me that I still sucked bad, and the only reason I was getting kills and not getting killed, was because my plane was one of the best.

 So I started experimenting with other planes - planes that do not have any kind of absolute advantage against the other. I tried the G-6 and the G-2, started messing with Fw190A-5 and A-8.

 Well, after a few weeks, it was incredibly frustrating, and I kept finding myself wishing for the G-10 - it's like an addiction. I found out that if I didn't want to die in the lesser performers, I couldn't engage anything at all.. which meant no kills!

 So, I started thinking about how the hell I'm gonna beat others and get kills in lesser performers... without having to rely on superior alt advantage or gangbanging vulches. This taught me a lot of things, I had to think a lot, ways to fool enemies, methods to run away from planes that were higher or faster than me.. etc etc.

 My suggestion for you is, put aside the Typhoon, La-7 and the Fw190D-9. And, don't touch the Spits, Hurris and the Nikis. Try the P-47 or the Fw190A series, or Bf109G-2 or G-6. Those planes really teaches you a lot of things about your current skill level. Sometimes it feels impossible surviving and getting kills at the same time in those planes - but there are people who can do it.

[gatt]

Nice reply Batz, perhaps it could be interesting to develop the "Energy Fighting" thingie into the more subtle "Hit & Climb" thing.

T1, never nose down with full throttle with the G10. When you have to nose down, throttle down and  check *frequently* your IAS-TAS. Level as soon as possible and make horizontal passes at medium-high speed on your prey. Try staying below 350mph TAS, hit your prey, then full throttle/WEP and then gently climb/spiral away.

Travelling fast (but not too fast) with a good E reserve (i.e.: full throttle and WEP) is the key, IMHO. This way you can attack and extend away (better climb away) with a very good speed and (above all) an incredible sustained climb rate. If your SA is good no co-alt enemy can catch you.

Obviously, check the sky around you for any high alt, high E enemy. The sky is full of preys ... and hunters as well.

[GODO]

T1loady, two tips for any 109:

 Use lots of rudder when rolling, much more important than ailerons.

 Use manual trim instead combat trim, mainly for hi speeds, and try to keep the bird trimmed for the next movement you will do, not just for your actual angle.

[wrag]

Hmmm..

Coupled with everything said by others in this thread here's my take on the 109G10.

IMHO this is a vertical fighter requiring mainly vertical moves.  There are many similarities between it and the P38.  The G10 is faster at most alts.  The P38 uses flaps allot the 109G's very rarely gets to speeds where flaps can be used.  With a badguy on u I usually (depending on speed) nose down gain speed then gentle turning climb away with wep if needed.  With 2 or more badguys your tactics must allow for all badguys within 3k and in some cases 4k.  Another 109 requires additional caution!  You may even want to engage the others with the 109 getting 1st priority.

This plane presents a small target and can be very hard to hit at distance.

I usually fly the 109G10 with 75% fuel and DT.  The G6, G2 etc. either 75% and DT or 75%, very rarely do I lift with less then 75% but have gone up with 50%.  It has such a small fuel tank.

I've found that depending on speed alt and weight (fuel loadout) the compression factor can change.

Generally 450 mph is the place where compression seems to get bad.

This seems to be from about 12k down.  Above 12k to 25k the speed seems to go upward towards 500 and even 550 range for compression.

When i start getting too much speed (425 or so nose down attitude) i will roll left or right and apply hard rudder in the direction of the high wing.  The roll direction depends on my target.  Hard turns with this flight angle will also bleed allot of speed.

300 to 400 mph is best fighting speed with 350 to 375 being ideal.

I started flyin this plane against, or because of, La7's.

IMHO the 109G10 WITH GONDOLAS and flown properly is a La7 killer.  An La7 above 10k can be in some real trouble against this plane!  And if the La7 dives and runs you can follow and catch him if his base is not to near.

IMHO, 1 vs 1, La7 vs 109g10, it is the La7 that is at bit of a disadvantage.  This is only my opinion and may be due to the individuals i've engaged more then the actual plane performance.

The G2 and G6 no gondolas (at least for me) are great planes for lower alt furballs if flown properly.  And the E and F models can be interesting.

!Cut throttle! while at  certain speeds and then nose down or up and hard rudder, elevator, and aileron combinations can produce some interesting results

OK OK I admit it! I love this plane.  It just seems to suite my flying style.

[Urchin]

Well, if you are familiar with the La-7, you are close to familiar with the 109G-10 and the 190D-9.  The 109G10 accelerates almost as well as the La-7, turns almost as well as the La-7, is marginally slower than the La-7, and climbs about as well as the La-7.  With gondolas it has as much firepower as an La-7, but then it is no longer even close performance wise.  Best bet is to take 1 20mm and fire the Mg's and cannon together at close ranges, with little or no deflection (because the ballistics aren't the same, so if you are turning while firing at a turning airplane, either the Mg's or the cannon will hit, but not both).  Keep in mind this does not mean the target canot be turning, all it means is that you aren't trying to pull lead and fire on a target.  You are aiming at a point in space that will hopefully be full of your rounds when the enemy plane gets there.  It takes a little work, but it is doable.  The 109G-10 is best flown as a gimp La-7, unless you are very good.  You will do all the same things you do in the La-7 (i.e. chase down runners so your friends can catch them, and then zoom to maintain your E when they turn, or run back to ack or friends if they chase you).  In the unlikely event that you are caught alone without friends, the 109G-10 is fast enough that you can run away from almost anything except an La-7, Typhoon, P-51, or a 190D-9.

The 190D-9 is similar.  It doesn't accelerate, turn, or climb nearly as well as an La-7 or a 109G-10, but it will run away faster than the 109G-10 will.  It also has more firepower than the 109 does, so the same "tactics" will usually garner a few more kills.  Basically fly in a pack of friendlies, chase down runners, and try to avoid getting into any fights at all and you will in no time be considered an "ace" in the 109G-10 or the 190D-9.

[senna]

Originally posted by Batz
The 109s will be heavy on the controls at about 640kmh.

All 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using their high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high-speed passes do not suit the 109's style. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes. The 109 can then climb back out and loop or climb away as necessary.

Turning in the 109 should be done at about 300-350 mph. The 109s have a decent instantaneous turn rate. This will allow you to get inside a breaking enemy in the early part of the turn. It is best not to follow an enemy through the turn.  Climbing into a yo yo would be best if you don’t get a guns solution. But if you do get sucked in the g10 has excellent acceleration. A slight nose down extension will allow you to regain speed quickly.

Also if get inside a breaking enemy unload your g's before you fire. What you want to do is guess/predict where the enemy will be then release stick pressure so you will have an easy deflection shot. Pulling g’s and firing will most likely be a waste of ammo because the enemy will be below your site line.

All 109's, regardless of version, share numerous traits:

Excellent climb rate
Good rudder response
Excellent performance between 12 and 22k
Above average low speed handling
Good negative-G handling
Good Acceleration
Below Average visibility from the cockpit
Not particularly "new pilot friendly"
Moderate to low ammunition supply
Heavy Controls above 640km/h
Mediocre durability

Couldnt have said it better. I would also add that you might try 50% fuel load and carry a drop tank. Plan your sortie out and dont tangle with too many spits. Instead pick corsairs, and other energy fighters to tangle with at first. Spits and other TNB aircraft are fightable but the kill must come quickly else you must egress and redictate your fight. With the 109s, trigger discipline is very important. Get in real close then shoot when its a sure shot. Dead 6 -250 yrds.  Even when you are very close always plan an escape in mind specially with spits. Gunnery skills are important in 109s. Nothing more satisfying than a kill in a 109.

[B17Skull12]

Originally posted by Batz
The 109s will be heavy on the controls at about 640kmh.

All 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using their high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high-speed passes do not suit the 109's style. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes.  

i second this on behalf of the 109F4

[vorticon]

the g-2 accelerates like a ferrari...