Pastor with guts

[Sandman]

No... I didn't miss this one either...

"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
No... I didn't miss this one either...

"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37

Sounds like good advice to me. I was only pointing out that it wasn't only old testament. The part about acknowledging and repenting from sin is very new testament, i.e.

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

[midnight Target]

We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it Pluralism. - And we deem it sacrilege to question that your word is best translated into god's English.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. - And thou hast neglected to answer my prayers each and every time I hast played.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. - For thine chosen ones shall have the coin of the realm and need no help in thy good name.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice. - And yea we have lost the dominion over thy women.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. - And have rejoiced in the freedoms thine 2nd Amendment has bestowed.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self esteem. - For thy rod and thy staff comforted me many a time Oh lord.

We have abused power and called it politics. - Amen

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition. - For thouest knows that only the communist system was in thine eyes the only covetless and thus most godlike.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. - And we shall hasten to send those pornographers to hell and damnation... the F***ers.

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.  - For our forefathers knew all and needed not the onerous "freedom of expression", nor did their slaves.

[AKIron]

Exposing sin and calling for repentance is a primary responsibility of a church leader. I can understand why this makes so many uncomfortable or even angry.

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."   John 3:19

[Chairboy]

Religion is essentially just 'my imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend'.  I'm a good person.  I don't kill or hurt people, I give a lot to charity, and I try to help others whenever I can.  I don't do it because I'm worried that I'll go to hell if I don't, I do it because I think its right.

Maybe if you're a religious type, you look at this guy with reverent respect and adoration because of his position.  To everyone else, he's just a blow hard pointing a finger and not caring if 10 fingers point back.

[AKIron]

I think you're denying religion's influence over you Chairboy. Where did you get your sense of "right"?

[Chairboy]

Circular argument, Iron.  Do you suggest that no good can exist without religion?  Religion has served its purpose and has done some good things, but it's foolish to treat it as anything other than a device for scaring people into doing good.

It was used as a framework to implement good behavior back when most people found it more convenient to just watch out for themselves, even at the expense of others.  For the most part, mission accomplished.  

Now that it's clear what's happened, why should I spend my time worshipping make believe gods?

It's not worth talking about, I guess.  Religious people have tunnel vision and are fine with their fantasy, and it's not my responsibillity to convince them otherwise.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by midnight Target
We confess that we have ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word and call it Pluralism. - And we deem it sacrilege to question that your word is best translated into god's English.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. - And thou hast neglected to answer my prayers each and every time I hast played.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. - For thine chosen ones shall have the coin of the realm and need no help in thy good name.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice. - And yea we have lost the dominion over thy women.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. - And have rejoiced in the freedoms thine 2nd Amendment has bestowed.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building
self esteem. - For thy rod and thy staff comforted me many a time Oh lord.

We have abused power and called it politics. - Amen

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition. - For thouest knows that only the communist system was in thine eyes the only covetless and thus most godlike.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. - And we shall hasten to send those pornographers to hell and damnation... the F***ers.

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.  - For our forefathers knew all and needed not the onerous "freedom of expression", nor did their slaves.

Chairboy although I only partially agree with you....MT that was funny

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Chairboy
Circular argument, Iron.  Do you suggest that no good can exist without religion?  Religion has served its purpose and has done some good things, but it's foolish to treat it as anything other than a device for scaring people into doing good.

It was used as a framework to implement good behavior back when most people found it more convenient to just watch out for themselves, even at the expense of others.  For the most part, mission accomplished.  

Now that it's clear what's happened, why should I spend my time worshipping make believe gods?

It's not worth talking about, I guess.  Religious people have tunnel vision and are fine with their fantasy, and it's not my responsibillity to convince them otherwise.

While I'll agree that the argument can become circular I will argue that the desire to be "good" comes from God and not from fear of being punished. And I agree, waste no time worshipping make believe gods.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by AKIron
...I will argue that the desire to be "good" comes from God and not from fear of being punished.

...and everyone that does not believe in your god is therefore inherently evil?

[Shane]

religion is nothing but the codification of communal norms and ethos with modifications to enable the few to have power over the many.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
...and everyone that does not believe in your god is therefore inherently evil?

I don't see how you got that from anything I've ever posted here.

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God"
Romans 3:23

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Shane
religion is nothing but the codification of communal norms and ethos with modifications to enable the few to have power over the many.

Sounds logical enough but that doesn't make it true.

[Shane]

not all power is abused, nor do all abuse power. you could also substitute "influence" for "power" if that makes it more palatable.

one must bear in mind that almost all religions have roots going way back and are deeply ingrained into the current communal psyches. even tho' one may not be a follower per se, their upbringing has been influenced to an extent by the community they've been raised in. it just goes to show that people are basically socially cooperative animals who still have even deeper ingrained territorial and flight or fight instincts.

you don't see any religions  getting started these days that grow to more than "weirdo-cult" types, but in a few centuries, who's to say where some of these current cults might end up in the religious food-chain. within the past few hundred years, we have seen christianity undergo various splits into denominations as like-minded people disagreed with their current power-structure/doctrines and splintered off.

i think there's room for many religions, each has their own pros and cons; some are more dangerous to civilization than others. to each their own, birds of a feather and all that.

[SirLoin]

I think it would take guts for a pastor to allow debate.