Three things that could really improve the AH experience

[Wanker]

Based on some comparison I've done between flying in AH and WW2OL:

Ground handling:  WW2OL has AH beat, hands down. Let's look at the differences in procedures for takeoff, and by that I mean what is realistically required for an average takeoff by an average fighter at a land base:

Aces High

1. Start engine
2. Firewall throttle
3. Apply small rudder inputs to correct for negligable torque effects

WW2OL

1. Start engine
2. Lock tail wheel
3. Lower flaps
4. Set max RPM's
5. Close canopy to reduce drag
6. Gradually engage throttle until plane starts to move slowly
7. Continue to increase throttle in a gradual manner until at full military power
8. Apply rudder inputs to correct for torque effects
9. When nose comes up, hold stick back to prevent ground looping
 
No question in my mind that HTC should invest the time in making the time spent on the ground before takeoff more realistic.


Icon/in-flight radar Systems:

AH

In-cockpit radar combined with bright, unmistakable neon icons that can be seen from a great distance away. Makes it easy to find a fight. Unfortunately, makes it nearly impossible to disengage from one.

WW2OL

No in-cockpit radar combined with a vague, fading icon system that doesn't indicate cons as enemy or friend until close at hand makes it challenging to find a fight. Also makes it difficult to maintain vis on enemy during fight. Makes it possible, however, to safely disengage from a fight if damaged, wounded or just outnumbered.

This topic is more subjective, no doubt. After spending time on both, I am leaning more toward the WW2OL system. Something about how you can be in the fight one moment, then completely out of it the next, is an interesting and IMO, exciting experience.



Engine Management:

AH

Upon starting engine, ram the throttle to full military power and forget about it. When extra power is needed, engage WEP(if available). No need to worry about overheating your engine, even with WEP engaged.

WW2OL


Three RPM settings: Economy RPM's, Continuous RPM's, Max RPM's. Max RPM's is typically only used during take off and during a fight. One must be careful not to use Max RPM's too much, or engine damage will result, caused by overheating.

In this dept, again, WW2OL has AH licked. Before you all accuse me of being an anal-retentive engine management freak, let me assure you I am not. That being said, however, the simple fact of having to adjust the RPM's depending upon what you're doing, is very immersive. It can lead to interesting situations where you can get the edge on an opponent because you have been more careful with your engine temp before you entered battle.

I have flown AH since the first day of open beta, and I have been one of HTC's biggest fans for many years. I have spent years as a CM, and one year as head CM. I have done my share to promote AH and to spread the gospel about AH to try to help HTC make a profit.

But after spending some time checking out WW2OL, it's apparent to me that there are some aspects of flight that HTC is satisfied with in its current, dumbed-down approach.

Don't get me wrong, I am aware of many faults in WW2OL's flight modelling, so I'm not here to say that AH sucks and WW2OL has it all right.

What I am saying, is that AH is so good that it deserves to be improved upon in those three areas listed above. I think that if HTC would decide to lean toward more realism, they would have the ultimate flight sim on the market.

Agree? Disagree?

[Xjazz]

Agree 100%.

[Rude]

Have you flown the Beta? Outside of Engine Management, flight model and ground handling have improved.

[Furball]

3 things:-

1) Beer
2) Women
3) Naked Women Carrying Beer

[Toad]

Originally posted by banana
No question in my mind that HTC should invest the time in making the time spent on the ground before takeoff more realistic.

[/b]

Why? Do you get many kills during the T/O sequence in WW2OL? Or are you just seeking ever-more "realistic immersion"? If so, that checklist is WAY too short. Do you want to start in the briefing room or maybe at the exterior walk around?

This topic is more subjective, no doubt. After spending time on both, I am leaning more toward the WW2OL system. Something about how you can be in the fight one moment, then completely out of it the next, is an interesting and IMO, exciting experience.

[/b]

Yes, and I hear of folks that drive their tanks on to a freighter and five hours later debark in France or whatever in WW2OL. It's OK, I guess if that's what you're looking for in a game. IIRC, AH radar is set up the way it is pretty much to ensure that folks CAN find the fight quickly. The icon thing can and should be adjusted in both games, IMO. AH is too strong and (the last time I played) WW2OL was too weak.
 

That being said, however, the simple fact of having to adjust the RPM's depending upon what you're doing, is very immersive.

[/b]

AH could probably use some engine management techniques. It's in the same vein though, when does immersive become pointlessly annoying in a game? You could say the same about fuel tank switching; does WW2OL mandate that?

it's apparent to me that there are some aspects of flight that HTC is satisfied with in its current, dumbed-down approach.[/b]

Yep. He doesn't even make you go to Primary and Advanced training before you go to school to qualify in ONE particular fighter before you deploy to the warzone.   See what I mean? I think he has his vision and he's pursuing it.  

I think that if HTC would decide to lean toward more realism, they would have the ultimate flight sim on the market.
[/B]

Lots of things in the pipeline and still more rest unmentioned in the designer's/owner's brain. I'll be around a while longer, waiting to see where he takes AH.

[AKIron]

It's been a while since I tried WWIIOnline but I don't think it beats IL2 for immersion so far as the takeoff is concerned. I don't fly IL2 much but every now and then I'll boot it up just to take off a few times.

[Wanker]

Why? Do you get many kills during the T/O sequence in WW2OL? Or are you just seeking ever-more "realistic immersion"? If so, that checklist is WAY too short. Do you want to start in the briefing room or maybe at the exterior walk around?

I am seeking ever more "realistic immersion". That being said, If WW2OL had me starting with the pre-flight checking of the surface movements and the fuel check, I'd be saying that they've gone way overboard in the realism dept.

But, as you'll notice I kept to what both sims offer today and I tried to present a fair appraisal of both without resorting to witty rhetorical questions.

Seriously, Toad, I do enjoy taxiing and takeoff, as well as landing. Ask any of my squaddies. My goal during squad nights is to bring my bird back in one piece and land that sucker. I am not in it "just for the kills". I'm in for the whole experience.

Yes, the realism can be taken to extremes. But WW2OL has not taken it to that point yet, and AH is woefully short in the realism dept. in some areas.

[Toad]

Well, then let's simply say I disagree.

I'm glad you have WW2OL and glad it "immerses" you.

I'm glad I have AH; there might be a few minor things I think would improve the "feel" or "theme" of the game but for me the "immersion" in any of these games starts when I see the enemy and lasts until that particular fight ends. Then it's just droning around looking to "immerse" myself in another round of WW2 style air combat.

THAT'S the part I crave.

I'm never going to be one of the ones that feels a sim should include the complaining about the horrible taste of powdered eggs and bad coffee in the mess hall before the briefing for the sake of "immersion". Sorry.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by banana
I think that if HTC would decide to lean toward more realism, they would have the ultimate flight sim on the market.

Wrong way to go banana. You left WB too soon. The realism nazis are in full flower over there now.  Just did a short stint with all 60 of them.

I don't want to recreate flying a WWII aircraft down to seeing 8 blades before I hit the mags.

The more "realistic" you make it, the smaller the nich becomes. Proven anywhere you look.

The "no icon" arena, the "short icon" arena, restrictions of available a/c in WB.  The CT. Squad Ops, The scenarios here.

Lizkng said once and I quote:

"10% of the population likes full realism 100% of the time. 90% of the population likes full realism 10% of the time"

It has been proven over and over again.

The sandbox has the people.

Make it ANYTHING different then a sandbox and you have WB with sixty guys.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Toad
Well, then let's simply say I disagree.

I'm glad you have WW2OL and glad it "immerses" you.

I'm glad I have AH; there might be a few minor things I think would improve the "feel" or "theme" of the game but for me the "immersion" in any of these games starts when I see the enemy and lasts until that particular fight ends. Then it's just droning around looking to "immerse" myself in another round of WW2 style air combat.

THAT'S the part I crave.

I'm never going to be one of the ones that feels a sim should include the complaining about the horrible taste of powdered eggs and bad coffee in the mess hall before the briefing for the sake of "immersion". Sorry.

You're being entirely unreasonable.

[Wanker]

Make it ANYTHING different then a sandbox and you have WB with sixty guys.

Nopoop, I'm not a realism Nazi, I'm more of a realism neo-fascist.



How, then, do you explain the thousands of people playing WW2OL? And if your hypothesis were correct, we'd all still be flying AW or Flying Circus or FA, wouldn't we?

[vorticon]

i agree with toad (though FM should still be as realistic as possible...it adds something to the fight...otherwise i might as well just play FA3...)

[Toad]

banana, not to pick on ya, but I think folks moved from AW to WB and then to AH primarily for improvements in the FM's; that's what directly improves the immersion of the fight itself.

I know I followed Dale to WB because the airplanes acted more like airplanes when performing BFM, not because there was more "realistic immersion" in the engine start procedure. (I don't think there was.)

I followed Dale to AH because the airplanes acted more like airplanes when performing BFM, not because there was more "realistic immersion" in the engine start procedure. (I don't think there was.)

You might throw gunnery and damage modeling in there too, I guess.

I think WW2OL has a large player base because it offers FPS opportunities, be it with a rifle, an AT gun or even a tank. There can be NO difference of opinion that FPS is a much larger genre with a much larger potential player base than straight up Air Combat. (Also, it's pretty clear that folks aren't swarming to WW2OL for the "improved" FM's. Not yet, anyway.)

Now, for me personally, that's a sad situation. Because I think we can all see the drift towards FPS ground ops that AH has taken since Beta. I don't blame HT a bit; the "purist Air Combat" player base is tiny compared to the market for evolution from Doom/Quake/MOH/DOD/COD/AA/WW2OL amongst players. Why do the work for a potential clientele of 10,000 when you can do the same amount of work for a potential clientele of 1,000,000?

He's a smart man, but if it goes that way, it'll be my loss and I'll understand completely.

[Wanker]

Ah, I get it. So you admit to being a "realism immersionist", too.

Thanks.

What I don't understand is why I get called a "realism nazi" just because I like my airplanes to feel like airplanes when I'm on the ground and in the air.

It would seem that everyone has their own comfort zone for realism. AKIron has a point about IL-2, too. IL-2 is even more complex than WW2OL in the flight dept. I suppose there's only 60 people flying IL2 at the moment, though.

Or maybe not?

[Toad]

Absolutely, when it comes to the fighting part.

All else.. the coffee in the mess hall, the walkaround inspection, the 27 step interior cockpit check, tightening your shoulder harness just before you put the power in........... is useless dross.

IMO.