Can some one please explain this...

[RearGunner]

Well, I go into a dogfight in my trusty Spity Mk5 against a P-51, they usually eat me alive, so I was cautious. Anyway, I tried using the spitys best quality by out turning him, which I did well, my only prob was E in which the spity Mk5 is lacking a lot of power compared to the P-51. So in the end, it basically goes like this: P-51 climbs, dives in...I turn hard and loss a lot of E, then dive to recover...this goes on until I reach the deck. So here, having little choice, I go for the head on. Having studied the film later, I counted I hit the P-51 a total of 7 times with Hispano and MG. 5 were on the inner part of the wing, 1 on the outer and 1 direct on the engine from a distance of 500 yards head on. No effect on him whatsoever. Is this normal? After that, he came round and fired a volley which took my wing off. Nothing unusual about that, only, in the film, I can see no tracers from his plane. Anytime he shot at me, there were no tracers. I'm not complaining about losing, as he was ranked about 350 in fighters and and I think I put up a good fight. I just want to know if this is "normal".

[Ripsnort]

Do you have "V-Sync" enabled?  I've noticed a syndrome called "Rubber Bullet Syndrome" if I have it disabled.  Also, you may have had some net lag as well. Also, were those 'hits' you were seeing, were they small MG hits and possibly the cannon shells were dropping low of the target?

[RearGunner]

Not sure about V-sync. I'll have to find out.

Does net lag show up on the film as well? Though I don't think I was lagging at the time.

The hits were actual hits as I slowed the film down and could see them actually hit. It was hard verifying which hits were cannon and which mg, but I'm pretty sure I hit with some 20mm.

Thanks Rip, I'll have to find out about that V-sync.

[Ripsnort]

Keep in mind that every 5th round I believe is a tracer round, so you actually may have had MORE hits than you describe.

[popeye]

What's your convergence settings?

It's not likely that you were getting hits with both MG and cannon at 500 yds, unless you have both converging at 500.

[Toad]

RG,

It really is tough to tell the MG/Cannon hit flashes apart. When I do fly the V or Seafire, I usually only use either/or. I use the MG to "herd" the guy and get him to turn. I use the Cannon to kill. Although sometimes if the bandit gets real slow after starting from a position of greatly superior E I will tickle him to death with .303 for the fun of it.  

As far as using the V against a B&Z attacker, I've found that I don't really need to use large E burning moves to get them to miss. As they come, start an easy descending turn into them. When they start to close to guns range, make 2 or 3 consecutive jinks out of your current "plane". (Down and into them sharply, for instance. Then a quick transition to an up jink, always with the original turn going.) They almost always miss and you then continue your turn in the direction of their egress.

You can often get in a shot as they depart.

This doesn't burn much E and you can do a slow climb as they extend and reverse.

This can go on several minutes and you will slowly be gaining alt and E. Often, if they keep trying to engage you can then nail them.  

YMMV.

[buhdman]

RearGunner,

I agree with Toad.  I've had good luck, recently, against the BnZ types with my trusty Spit V by not trying too hard. A rolling reversal is usually quite effective (e.g., high-speed, nose-down turn to the left, watching con out the top of your cockpit, then rolling right and pulling up, watching their bullet stream miss and them overshooting, then rolling out on their six). The most important things you can do are:

1. Don't evade the same way too often.
2. After they overshoot and are out in front of you, extend for energy/speed and assess or manipulate their next attack pass.

If you're lucky, you'll be fighting an impatient pilot and you'll eventually get a good snap shot or he'll get too slow and you'll nail him.  If your luck runs like mine usually does, it will be HBLAIR or HANGTIME and you'll fight for 15 or 20 minutes until you run out of ammo/fuel and he'll kill you. (<S> you two for the many good fights).

As to the HO you described, that's happened to me many times with many other aircraft.  I'll see good hits as I fly by and explode.  Usually, the hits are .303s with cannon missing by a mile, I guess.  The thing I've learned (but don't always put into practice) is that HOs are bad, bad, bad.  If you've got the Stang that low and slow, out turn him.

Good Luck!

Buhdman, out of his mind

------------------
Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
The Buccaneers - "Return with Honor"
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow

[RearGunner]

Thanx guys, you're a lot of help.

My convergence, I checked, is: 650 on the cannon; 450 and 350 on the MG's. Should be the other way round maybe?

Toad, I'll try that.   I looked at the film and I was at a disadvantage nearly all the way through except for the start and at one point I should have turned into him except for away then I would have gotten on his six. I still have to work on my awarness.

[RearGunner]

I agree buhdman, I only do HO's as a last resort. Too much of a lottery, in my opinion. Gonna try some of these tactics.  

[popeye]

I like to get up close and personal in a Spit V, with convergences set to around 300 or less.  You don't have the ammo to spray and pray at 650.

[Ripsnort]

 

Originally posted by popeye:
I like to get up close and personal in a Spit V, with convergences set to around 300 or less.  You don't have the ammo to spray and pray at 650.

Ditto, for some reason, the spit is particularly lethal with a short burst at that range.  

[wulfie]

Reargunner,

Try these things.

Set the convergance on all your guns to 175.

Open fire at from 150 to 225 if you are at that range with a low rate of closure on the target.

Open fire at 250 if you have decent closure and are running the target down from behind.

Open fire at 300-400 in head on type passes (i.e. you are diving in at a target from the target's  high 10-11, etc.).

MOST IMPORTANT: when making any deflection shots, especially tracking shots or any shots where your aircraft (Spitfire V) is pulling 1+ G fire cannons *only* for the next month.

The Hispano has great velocity for a cannon, but you'd be surprised by the difference in drop between your cannons and MGs even with a low (1) G tracking shot at range 300 or less.

Get in close and buzzsaw the target. 2 cannons + MGs at convergance at range 200- will get you quick kills. Also, the more desperate the situation, the closer the range to the target (usually - rolling scissors at edge of stall, snap shots at 150-
in situations like this, etc.). Better to hit hardest when you need it the most.

Mike (wulfie)

[buhdman]

I agree with the others, your convergence is set WAY to long for that plane.  You were probably hitting with MG, and overshooting with canon.  I'm not exactly sure of my settings (I can't check them now), but I'm pretty sure they are around 250 (all guns).  A short burst up close and the bandit's a tumbling mass of metal.

buhdman, out

------------------
Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
The Buccaneers - "Return with Honor"
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow

[Lephturn]

Really good advice here guys.

RearGunner,

I'd try setting your cannon convergence to something close.  Something between 200 and 250 will do the trick.  Closer if you like, but the Hispano's have a very good trajectory, so I don't think you have to get too close... pick the range you plan to fire at, but generally closer is better.  Set your MG's out to very long range, at least one set, for tagging those escaping bad guys and scaring them into breaking.

The key out of all the advice above is to N E V E R fire MG's and cannons together.  Their trajectories, especially under G's, are too different.  If you are firing both, you will often hit with MG's only while the devastating cannon rounds drop harmlessly beneath the target.  You need to map your primary trigger to cannons, and your secondary to MG's only, or the other way around.  You can use the MG's to try longer range shots to mess with his head, or maybe get lucky.  When you get in close, use cannons only for the kill.  Only use both if you are firing at 1G straight and level and pretty much can't miss.

One thing I can say for sure, is that if you had nailed a P-51 with 5 Hispano rounds, he would have died.  

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-24-2001).]

[RearGunner]

Ok, I've reset my convergences to mg's further out and cannon close in. I've tweaked my joystick once again and this time my plane handles more like I'm used to in CFS.   So I'm happy. I figured out what it was. I never noticed you could tweak settings for both roll AND pitch AND rudder. Duh! lol. Handles much more sweetly now. Well, I'm gonna try some of these tactics out. Thanx again. :0