Author Topic: Mars - why we're there.  (Read 2257 times)

Offline Rude

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2004, 02:12:57 PM »
Mars contains a new found mineral designated as Gn1a.....it's supposed use would revolutionize the tensil strength and weight components of metals now known to mankind....that is why we are on Mars.

Sheesh....don't you guys ever read.

Offline Octavius

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2004, 02:13:27 PM »
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Originally posted by Nakhui
Eh there's not "perhaps" about it... mars is pox marked with meteor impacts... as well as the mooon.


But was it impacted before or after it had an atmosphere?

Depending on its velocity, a meteor the size of a car could make a crater the size of Rhode Island.  

Earth's atmosphere slows and reduces a meteor correct?  Then, without anything to slow or reduce it's size, wouldn't a larger impact crater ensue?  I'm not 100% on the ballistics/kinetics/materials of Mars surface/whatever... probably not even 70% sure :)  mostly speculation
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Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2004, 02:21:57 PM »
Mars can't be terraformed because it doesn't have enough mass to retain an atmosphere like Earth's.

Anything added to its current atmosphere will just drift away into space.

Still, space exploration is the only way we will find the answers to the mysteries of how and why we exist. Its also the only way to find the answers to the oddities in the universe.

Mars is a small step in the long road of space exploration, and one that is necessary. Its the only planet we can send anything to that won't get destroyed from heat or a massive atmosphere.
-SW

Offline Ossie

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2004, 02:39:08 PM »
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Saurdaukar: Miko - WTF does any of your agenda have to do with the Mars landing?

It was not funded by voluntary contributions but by the resources coercively extracted, without regard to the preferences of the people who had to pay for it.

If anyone formed a private company with an intent of exploring and exploiting Mars, nearspace, etc., I would most likely have purchased shares - provided I approved their methods, priorities, etc.


Dago: I still have no clue how you found slave labor relevant to the Mars exploration. I am pretty sure all NASA employees are paid a salary and allowed to go home after work.

The taxes, Dago. When one pays taxes, he/she has no say in how much to pay and how it gets spent. When a 50% of products of person's labor are taken away under threat of violence, it's a form of slavery.


O  M  F  G


On a more topic-related note, history has pretty much proven that humans are exploration-inclined, it's just something we do. None of us would be where we are today if it weren't for some very ambitious people long ago, and future generations will no doubt say the same thing. Exploring planets and deep space is only a logical progression of human existance. What we're doing on Mars right now is essential for that progression of exploration.

Offline Saurdaukar

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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2004, 03:21:02 PM »
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Originally posted by miko2d
Saurdaukar: Miko - WTF does any of your agenda have to do with the Mars landing?

 It was not funded by voluntary contributions but by the resources coercively extracted, without regard to the preferences of the people who had to pay for it.

 If anyone formed a private company with an intent of exploring and exploiting  Mars, nearspace, etc., I would most likely have purchased shares - provided I approved their methods, priorities, etc.


So... you want all the privileges of living in a capitalist society... but you dont want to pay for it.  Ok.

Fire off a nasty letter to NASA - maybe they'll send you the 15 cents of yours that went into this program and you can put it towards your 401K (would you be against those or for them?).

There is a catch though - if you choose not to fund your share of the space program you arent allowed to use any of the products derived as a result of said program.

Thats right Mr. Man... put that Tang down...

Offline Dago

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« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2004, 03:22:58 PM »
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When one pays taxes, he/she has no say in how much to pay and how it gets spent


While we don't normally have a direct say in the spending of taxes, we have indirect control if we care to exercise it by electing or reelecting those who we feel will spend or guard the money taken in taxes.  Often we can directly have our say in the form of referendum.

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why do you care to read and answer my posts? Just add me to your ignore list.


1) I choose rather than ignore your attacks on my country to stand up and speak for my country, let the little sheep who frequent this board say nothing.  Cowards without conviction or the courage to speak up dont impress me.

2) I like arguing.

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I also know that some people get interested in my ideas and contact me for more info. Not everyone cares to publicly admit it but I would not waste my time if my posting here was completely fruitless.  


Kind of sad really to think that you are only using this board to recruit for the Libertarians.  Even sadder is they don't realize the ideas you post aren't really yours, but rather taken from the Libertarians.  

Again, I will say this.  I dont object to anyone in this country watching, challenging abuses to our righths by the governement.  What pisses me off is you constant stream of attacks on the government on this board, and your failing to realize this country is a great country that will continue to thrive longer than you are drawing breath.

For a change, start an upbeat post.


dago
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Offline simshell

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2004, 04:22:14 PM »
we exist because of GOD

:)



we should make a thread just for taking on mako:D
known as Arctic in the main

Offline Krusher

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2004, 08:03:22 PM »
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
I hope Beagle 2 says hello... even with that crappy Blur mini-song.

Daniel



so do I, but without that stupid song :)

Offline Dowding

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2004, 06:02:43 AM »
Titan is a moon of Saturn which has organic (using the chemical definition) seas. Europa is the icy ball moon that orbits Jupiter. Jupiter's huge gravitational field is thought to 'stir-up' the interior of the planet giving rise to an icy sea covered by a crust of ice. If there are vents like the ones on our ocean floor, on the European (not sure if that's the right word) floor, they could heat the water. Life has been found to thrive around these vents on Earth. Of course, this is untested theory.

BTW, Skuzzy I don't quite understand your definition of going off topic. If someone disagrees with the original poster, is that deemed off topic? Are you looking for a stream of 'dittos' after each starting post? I assume not. And if the original post is a pretty general statement of opinion, why is it wrong to take that subject in another direction, while still relating to it? For instance if you say you disagree with gofaster's position for reasons x, y and z and someone picks up on z, your position seems to be that the thread has been hijacked. I fail to see that. If you ever go to a debating society, you will see the discussion veer pretty wildly about the main subject. Typically, one side proposes an idea with a simple statement, and the discussion goes from there in all sorts of directions.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2004, 06:25:30 AM by Dowding »
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Offline miko2d

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2004, 10:27:46 AM »
Ossie: On a more topic-related note, history has pretty much proven that humans are exploration-inclined, it's just something we do.

 Right - voluntarily. Saying that we need to be coerced into exploring iwould contradict your point.

None of us would be where we are today if it weren't for some very ambitious people long ago,

 Who privately funded and accomplished great deeds.


Saurdaukar: So... you want all the privileges of living in a capitalist society... but you dont want to pay for it. Ok.

 Quite the opposite. I want myself - and everyone else - to pay voluntarily for everything they use. There is no need for a government intervention to enable the functioning of the free market - the government intervention is disrupting free market.
 I do not want "priviliges" of living in a socialist society - and neither do I want to be saddled with expenses.

There is a catch though - if you choose not to fund your share of the space program you arent allowed to use any of the products derived as a result of said program.

 So far it is you who seem to promote stealing the fruits of my investments for your preferred purposes. What's more - not only my money voluntarily invested in biomedical and other research bring me dividends that are coercively confiscated, you  are free to purchase the goods produced due to my savings and investement and risk-taking.
 For all I care, you socialists can have Mars all to yourself. I don't pay for it, I don't use it - that's exactly my position.

 As for 401K - why the heck should I demand poor people to subcidise my retirement with their taxes? When I am contributing to the max and getting a tax-free comany match and I am in the highest tax bracket, I save a lot more on taxes than an average Joe who has to cover the shortfall. 401K is the wealth transfer from the poor to the wealthy. As long as we pay taxes, we should at least use them to help disadvantages, not the privileged.


Dago: While we don't normally have a direct say in the spending of taxes, we have indirect control if we care to exercise it by electing or reelecting...

 Democratic majority can confiscate property of the minority and dispose of it at will. That's nothing more than a brute force principle.
 According to that principle a gang raping a woman "for her own good" is totally justified. They have good intentions and she has her chance to vote.


Kind of sad really to think that you are only using this board to recruit for the Libertarians. Even sadder is they don't realize the ideas you post aren't really yours,

 As I've said several times, I am referrinmg people to the original sources at the first opportunity. It's kind of sad you fail to nderstand simple English.
 And if you think that one can reproduce single-handedly the whole knowlege accumulated by humanity, you are deluded.
 I never claim I came up with the theory. I am only making people aware that the knowlege does exist for them to learn -just like I did. And I apply that knowlege to explain/illustrate the events in our lives.
 I do not have to invent and build a car from scratch in order to give someone a lift.

 Anyway, Dago - you spend way too much time concentrating on my personality and my motives. It's your right but I do notc are to waste time on you. If you have problems with the ideas that I post here, find the flaws in my logic or premises and have a rational discussion.

 miko

Offline vorticon

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2004, 11:00:44 AM »
AKS\/\/ulfe


mars is almost the exct same size as earth. where on earth did you get the notion it didnt have enough mass to be terraformed


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BTW, Skuzzy I don't quite understand your definition of going off topic. If someone disagrees with the original poster, is that deemed off topic? Are you looking for a stream of 'dittos' after each starting post? I assume not. And if the original post is a pretty general statement of opinion, why is it wrong to take that subject in another direction, while still relating to it? For instance if you say you disagree with gofaster's position for reasons x, y and z and someone picks up on z, your position seems to be that the thread has been hijacked. I fail to see that. If you ever go to a debating society, you will see the discussion veer pretty wildly about the main subject. Typically, one side proposes an idea with a simple statement, and the discussion goes from there in all sorts of directions.


i beleive he's talking about miko and dagos argument...

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Quite the opposite. I want myself - and everyone else - to pay voluntarily for everything they use. There is no need for a government intervention to enable the functioning of the free market - the government intervention is disrupting free market.

anti-trust laws...without government intervention we would all be going down to "rocker-mart" to by our "rocker-os" using our "gold" gas we got from the rockerfellers...and you do pay voluntarily for most stuff you use...unless somehow your "using" NASA for some reason...

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Who privately funded and accomplished great deeds.

i could have sworn that most of the explorers had to go BEGGING to the king for enough funds for there trip...check your history dude

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2004, 11:12:50 AM »
Uhm, Vorticon - I'm not sure where you got your data from but straight from my Astronomy book:

Mars' diameter = 6800km

Earth's diameter = 12,800km

Venus' (Earth's "twin") diameter = 12,100km
-SW

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2004, 11:23:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Uhm, Vorticon - I'm not sure where you got your data from but straight from my Astronomy book:

Mars' diameter = 6800km

Earth's diameter = 12,800km

Venus' (Earth's "twin") diameter = 12,100km
-SW


mars:
mass: 6.37x10^23 kg
radius: 3.43x10^6 m
period of  rotation on: axis 8.85x10^4 s

earth
mass: 5.98x10^24 kg
radius: 6.38x10^6 m
period of rotation on axis: 8.61x10^24

your right...but it doesnt necasarrily mean mars cant handle any mor atmosphere (take a look at the great difference between venus and earths atmosphere...)

Offline Skuzzy

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Mars - why we're there.
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2004, 11:27:06 AM »
Diameter is irrelevant to the mass, which is critical to supporting an atomosphere.  Here is a comparison between Earth and Mars:

                                               Mars              Earth             Ratio (Mars/Earth)
Mass (1024 kg)                            0.64185       5.9736       0.107
Volume (1010 km3)                    16.318       108.321         0.151  
Equatorial radius                    3397            6378.1             0.533
Polar radius (km)                    3375            6356.8             0.531
Volumetric mean radius (km)  3390            6371.0             0.532
Core radius (km)                    1700             3485                0.488
Ellipticity (Flattening)                   0.00648         0.00335    1.93
Mean density (kg/m3)            3933             5515                0.713
Surface gravity (m/s2)                 3.71               9.80          0.379
Surface acceleration (m/s2)         3.69               9.78          0.377
Escape velocity (km/s)                 5.03             11.19           0.450
GM (x 106 km3/s2)                      0.04283          0.3986       0.107
Bond albedo                                0.250              0.306         0.817
Visual geometric albedo              0.150              0.367         0.409
Visual magnitude V(1,0)             -1.52               -3.86             -
Solar irradiance (W/m2)          589.2             1367.6            0.431
Black-body temperature (K)    210.1               254.3            0.826
Topographic range (km)            30                    20               1.500
Moment of inertia (I/MR2)            0.366               0.3308      1.106
J2 (x 10-6)                             1960.45           1082.63          1.811
Number of natural satellites        2                      1
Planetary ring system                No                    No
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Offline vorticon

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« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2004, 11:33:53 AM »
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Diameter is irrelevant to the mass, which is critical to supporting an atomosphere. Here is a comparison between Earth and Mars:


i would think that it is (a  bit anyway)...more diameter = more rock inside the planet...thus more mass...the only way a planet with a small diameter could have the same amount of mass is if the smaller planet had a denser substance make up...or if the wider planet was hollow or with less dense makeup...