Author Topic: Apache Film  (Read 7385 times)

Offline FUNKED1

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Apache Film
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2004, 04:46:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Now in terms of the Apache footage, what does it add to the historical record, other than its own existance? Little, if anything.


The full version is pretty informative on ROE, C3, etc.  And probably on intel or surveillance too.  I doubt it is a coincidence that an AH-64 happened to be in hover 370 yards away waiting for this transaction to take place.

Offline SunTracker

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« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2004, 04:49:29 AM »
Its possible to get desensitized to this kind of stuff if you watch it too much.

Offline type_char

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« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2004, 04:53:05 AM »
I've seen tons of this stuff, dont know why everyone is getting so hot and fired up on nothing. Hell the gun film doesnt even have music. Most interesting part was when the first guy got made into hamburger meat. The rest pf it was just sad, last guy crawling around with one leg (thats what I think). Sick amusement if you ask me.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2004, 04:57:10 AM by type_char »

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2004, 04:53:57 AM »
Sorry funked, got you ignore. If it isn't another personal attack then I'm sure your point is well worth reading. Probably.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2004, 05:09:52 AM »
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Originally posted by Airhead
DUDE, the best thing you and BigBMAW could do is STFU, neither one of you ever killed nothing more than a six pack of Budweiser and several thousand kittens. I like the stories, but save them for the highly impressionable ....


ROFL!!!:rofl
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Offline Duedel

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« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2004, 05:13:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by type_char
I've seen tons of this stuff, dont know why everyone is getting so hot and fired up on nothing. Hell the gun film doesnt even have music. Most interesting part was when the first guy got made into hamburger meat. The rest pf it was just sad, last guy crawling around with one leg (thats what I think). Sick amusement if you ask me.

Hilarious in particular the "... doesnt even have music..." part.
But yeah ur right type_char if its its amusement than its more than sick.

Offline type_char

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« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2004, 05:17:00 AM »
Its simply niave to view human death any other way.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2004, 11:04:57 AM »
A lovely little snit you're having Dowding! Cheerful to oblige!

It is your personal problem. Sorry. With and obvious solution; don't watch this stuff if it bothers you. It's certainly not up to anyone else here or elsewhere to save your from this outrage. These films exist and will be shown. DON'T WATCH. That's a PERSONAL decision.

However, the History Channel, Wings, et al have shown there are a very, very large number of folks that DO have a desire to watch footage from wars where people die, either individually on camera or in flaming aircraft cockpits where their features are indistinguishable. War Photographers have been lauded and awarded prizes for showing pictures of war dead; for caputuring history.

The books spark imagination; films correct imagination. The book presentations usually are more indepth but there's no way they can convey what it looked like. From your little rant there, I wonder if you support the development of the camera. After all, for example, we could have just read incredibly detailed descriptions of exotic, non-native flowers instead of seeing close ups.

What it adds is a clear visualiaztion of how the Apache weapons system actually works at night, with and overlay of the command and control used. It adds a clear understanding of how the Apache is used in war, in coordination with C&C. YOU should have just read about it somewhere though, since it bothers you.

Now go ahead and tell me you didn't/don't watch old WW2 guncam films.

Or even that you watch them while screaming "OH! The humanity!" at the telly.

While you're "getting off", on purely proper "impersonal death", of course.

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Offline Dowding

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« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2004, 11:20:59 AM »
"The Apache's weapons systems work! Thank god for that! For a moment there, we weren't sure. For a moment there, we thought we had a white elephant situation again. I'm glad someone posted that film - the relief is tangible. Now if someone could post a video of the US Army standard issue combat knife being used to slit a throat or three, we'd know the Federal ordnance requisition people have done another sterling job and I'll sleep easy tonight knowing my tax dollars were well spent yet again! Yay!"

Don't buy it. Sorry.

If you're so interested in seeing weapons work as intended when, if at all, do you draw the line?

Gun camera footage in the context of a historical documentary - I think it has a use. Gun camera footage posted on some BBS with no annotation... I think there is a distinction.

Film doesn't neccessarily correct imagination - it depends who is behind the camera and where it is pointed. This is suitably demonstrated by how many times have people said "weapon x is under-modelled because of this film" around here. A variety of sources from different origins is far better, wrapped up in some sort of package... hey like a documentary. Fancy that!

I'd like to see how accurate a view of the world could be taken from film footage, and then compare it to one taken solely from books. I wonder which would be closer to the truth?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2004, 11:33:15 AM by Dowding »
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2004, 11:37:18 AM »
I have always been and always will be fascinated with combat film.  

I find it genuinely amusing that people who hate guns will play with guns on a computer and enjoy it immensely.  Also people who hate seeing real combat film but make computer guncam films and love it.  In summation: whatever works for you, pursue it with vigor.
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2004, 11:44:05 AM »
Awww Dowding I apologize lil buddy.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2004, 11:46:32 AM »
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I find it genuinely amusing that people who hate guns will play with guns on a computer and enjoy it immensely. Also people who hate seeing real combat film but make computer guncam films and love it.


They may enjoy it because its djust a game, and a game=sport in a way, where no one gets hurt...
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2004, 11:50:16 AM »
One thing that hasn't come up (or else I missed it).
IMHO the strongest possible way to make an anti-war statement is to depict battle with as much realism as possible.  The more people see what is actually happening in war at the human level, the more likely they are to understand just what a disaster it is.  John Keegan's "Face of Battle" is a good example of this.  Or films like "Paths of Glory".  Or documentary footage like this AH-64 attack or the one where the soldiers finish off the poor guy on his belly in the street.  These words and pictures are the only way for civilian pukes like us to have any chance of understanding just how bad war really is, and that makes them valuable.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2004, 11:53:13 AM by FUNKED1 »

Offline Badger

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« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2004, 11:57:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
.........John Keegan's "Face of Battle" is a good example of this.......  


An oldie but goodie....

Great read and a terrific book for those that want to understand the personal side of combat and what motivates warriors throughout the ages.

BTW, I agree with your other comments funked.... :D

Regards,
Badger

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2004, 11:59:41 AM »
Thx Badger.  I'm looking forward to Keegan's book on the current war in Iraq.