109G6 :((

[beet1e]

I've seen some guys speak of the 109G6 as the best fighter ever. Personally, I've taken an arsekicking in this thing in the past few days. In the MA, my choice of 109Gx was always either the G2 or G10. The G2 is a bit more manoeuvrable, but the G10 is obviously faster and zooms better. The G6 seems to have the disadvantages of both without the advantages of either. I went to the score archives to see how everyone else did in it, and found that k/d in the G6 was much lower than the G2 and G10 - see the attached stats. I was comforted to note that it's not just me who sucks in the G6. But how do YOU guys feel about the G6?



I was disappointed to see that there was no 109F4 in the current Israel campaign. Wouldn't that have been a better match against the Spit V?

Incidentally, I did my own tests offline in the Spit V. Beginning at a TAS of 240mph, I was able to bank it 90° and make a 180° turn and level out in about six seconds, losing only 40mph.

Hmmmm....

[artik]

First question: 109G6, G2 or G10
Yes 109g2 is overall better then g6 except of one point - firpower. 109G6 has 30mm gun that very usefull in hunting buffs. also if you use nose 20mm gun without pods you have 2x13mm+20mm instead of 1x20mm with 2x7mm that is much better.

Yes 109g2 little bit faster climbs better turns little bit better but has lower firepower. So if you know how to use 1x30mm (I don't) 109g6 will be better then 109g2 with pods.

109g10 - is best from all - it is faster climbs better has same firepower that g6. But turns worster.

Second question: 109F or 109g6 vs spit 5
109G6 is much better if you fly them right. 109F4 very close in its turn raito, speed, climb to Spit 5 but anyway Spit outturns it.
If you talk about 109g6 it is outperforms Spit 5. It is much faster has suprioir climb ratio but - never turfight with it.

In previous setup 109 should represent actually S199 109g14 with ju88 engine. If I put F it is very good dogfighter when S199 no. 109g6 was faster then s199 but it was better for setup ballance.

Summary
It is all about tactics if you going to turnfight spit with 109g10 you will loose if you will go vertical is Spit after 109 you will loose also. Fly right tactics and all will be ok

[Batz]

The 109g6 is the most fun of all the 109s.
 
The g6 is just slightly slower and has a slightly lower climb rate then the g2. The g6 in ah is about 100lbs heavier and has the mg bulges (g2 = mg17; g6 = mg 131).

But the g6 has the MK 108.........

The differences between the g6 and g2 are minimal. The g6 weighs about 100 lbs more then the g2 and is slightly slower and has a slightly lower climb rate. This is a result of the added weight and drag. The g6 has mg131 in the cowl and the g2 mg17. The g6 has better visibility and the 3cm cannon. That alone is a reason to prefer the g6. But also even with a single 20mm combined with the 13mm it is better armed then the g2.

In terms of maneuverability they are indistinguishable with out gondolas. The g2 performs a bit better then the g6 because it starts off a bit lighter. However a g2 with gondolas is still worse off then a clean g6.

With the g6 gondolas imho are not a good idea. Considering that the Mk 108 is the most efficient gun in terms of dealing with either fighters or bombers. You carry less weight and a greater punch. 9 times out of 10 1 hit with 3cm = 1 kill.

If you aren’t used to firing the 3cm should practice. Once you get the hang of it nothing in the game can compare. I have had double digit kill streaks in the g6 with just the MK 108. My ex-squad mates have had the similar streaks. The key is to be patient, get close and actually aim instead of spray.

You can't out run so you will to out fight them.

When I came to ah I only flew 190s (back when my nic was Wotan). I quit AH and when I returned (as Batz) I formed a squad that just flew the g6. I only flew maybe 12 hours a tour for maybe 2 months before I gave ah all together. Flying the g6 I was:



I never flew above 10k 90% of the time and I was a die-hard furballer. Learn how to kill with that tater gun and you will never go back to the g2. Of course the g10 is better, especially AH's version. But hell the La7 beats all so if you judge your ride by that standard stick with it or the p51.

YMMV

[Eagler]

g6 matches up with the spit9 and 14 while
f4 matches up with the spit5 for 1v1 turn fights .. gotta pay attention to loadout/weight too

those combos I'll win unless the spit really know what he is doing .. which is rare

if there is 2/3/4 to 1, you are dead with that many spray & prayers in the hizooka mobiles...

[beet1e]

Well, Batz - you're better at it than I am, but my stats come largely from the MA where, as you say, the LA7 and P51 are King and Queen.



The interesting thing about my stats is that the k/d against the G6 is (at 4.7) much higher than against the G2 (2.06) and G10 (2.43). How do you explain that? A lot of other G6 guys struggling?

Batz, I need your help. I've had excellent tater cannon tuition from Grünherz, and used what I learned from him, Urchin and Ecke against a few spit dweebs in tour 41. I made a film, and wondered if you could review it and add comments. At that time, I was indeed using the tater cannon and no gondolas. That's fine, provided you can rope the spit dweebs into vertical situations. But increasingly, I found myself fighting turnfighters, using such gamey techniques as lowering the sound of their own engines so they could "listen out" for cons creeping up behind. I found it impossible to mount a surprise attack. The con would always turn, presenting the briefest of snapshots. In that situation, I found it next to impossible to land a tater on target, especially as I always endeavoured to get closer than 200 yards with that thing. So I'm afraid I went back to gondolas, which were fine for shooting off B17 wingtips. But I'm beginning to think that the adverse effect of gondolas is greatest on the G6, and not as bad on the G10 and G2.

Beet1e roping Spit dweebs film

In the Israel campaign in the CT, the Spit guys are more competent than the dweebs you will see in my film. They won't play vertical, and it's very hard to get close to them. If you do, they simply turn or split-S and there's no way to follow them. But what really sucks is when you chase one down, you're in his 6 and then he slides out to the side - missed shot, but then the Spit slides back to saddle up on MY ass, and gets one of those lucky shots at 400 yards, 600 yards or more. Eagler, you got me with one of those 600+ yard shots the other night. Hehe, we all know those long range shots are gamey BS, if RL WW2 was anything to go by. Whatever next - in flight convergence adjustment? ;)

Eagler, I agree the 109F4 v Spit V is an interesting match. Remember a few weeks ago we were going at it 1v1? We kept it going 5 minutes. Judging from the outcome, you got distracted there at the end. But it was great!

[Eagler]

Originally posted by storch
In my G6 I killed Eagler twice out of three engagements and eskimo once out of three engagements. eskimo's were HO's and he died twice.  With eagler both shots were beautiful full deflections, I'm sure he woke up in the tower wondering what hit him.  

you fail to mention both times i was engaged with another & u butt shot me ...
sry to rain on ur "kills" ohh CT master but anytime you wanna, I'll meet you in DA without ur buttload of buddies...

[LtMagee]

I couldnt get the video to work but some how I am not surprised storch was involved in a massave gangbang

[Batz]

The stats I posted were main stats and I am at best mediocre. I just have more time in those planes then most over my AH career. Urchin and I were squad mates and he's 1000x better then me. Same with all the guys I flew with (moot, wetrat, heinkel, urchin, AG (AHGOD), Erlkonig, lazerus, drunky and brady).

I will take a look at your film when I get home later.

I never fly any 109 with gondolas, especially on the g6.

All 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using their high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high-speed passes do not suit the 109's style. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes. The 109 can then climb back out and loop or climb away as necessary.

Turning in the 109 should be done at about 300-350 mph. The 109s have a decent instantaneous turn rate. This will allow you to get inside a breaking enemy in the early part of the turn. It is best not to follow an enemy through the turn. Climbing into a yo yo would be best if you don’t get a guns solution.

Also if you get inside a breaking enemy unload your g's before you fire. What you want to do is guess/predict where the enemy will be then release stick pressure so you will have an easy deflection shot. Pulling g’s and firing will most likely be a waste of ammo because the enemy will be below your site line.

All 109's, regardless of version, share numerous traits:

Excellent climb rate
Good rudder response
Excellent performance between 12 and 22k
Above average low speed handling
Good negative-G handling
Good Acceleration
Below Average visibility from the cockpit
Not particularly "new pilot friendly"
Moderate to low ammunition supply
Heavy Controls above 640km/h
Mediocre durability

[GRUNHERZ]

Bf109G6 is the greatest fighter in history of air combat!

[Eagler]

Originally posted by storch
any time JG 3 ups as a squad we will be accused of gangbanging because we have 31 people on the roster and an above average attendance record.  how is that a bad thing?  

i'm curious to see some of our fellow CTer's sincere take on this.  please spare me the name calling.

I appreciate the numbers in CT .. now they just have to be even

Can't grasp the enjoyment one would get out of a 2/3/4/ to 1 kill .. ???

Call it "practice" and split ur squad for the enjoyment of the arena

[Soulyss]

Batz? Wotan? ... lol I had no idea, learn somthing new every day I suppose.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by storch
I flew the spit V for a few minutes last night, like two sorties maybe and I could do no wrong in it,  I agree with Eskimo the spit V is like cheating, shame on you spittards flying it and then gloating about your kills, if i had flown that airplane the wailing in knashing of teeth from the moaners would have brought skuzzy in to investigate. i am not interested in flying such a machine in this game there is no challenge to it.  
 

Besides .. it's too damned slow to run like hell away from your opponent in, ain't it, Sheila?

[Furball]

dont know what your prob is with the G6.  I picked one up, no experience in it and had np roping and killing spits.

I think the usual prob with the g6 is the pilot not being aggressive enough and constantly trying to run or extend.  But then again thats just my un-educated, simplistic view on it.

I know what i like and thats spitfires.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by storch
furball, the fact that you are without doubt one of the best in the game might have something to do with it. I'm fairly certain that you could rope and kill most of us in a C47.  

ROFL! I think another thing is that until last night, I had been mounting solo attacks and then coming up against multiple Spits or a Spit/205 combo. But I've joined JG3 now, so things should be much better than flying alone. Previous experience indicates that flying as part of even a small group makes a huge difference.

One thing I don't want to do is to give up on the G6 and go to the Spit V just because it's easier. I shall dump the gondolas on the G6 and use the 30mm cannon. And I'll struggle on till I get it right.

[Shane]

lol, safety in numbers huh beet1e?

i think it's time to remind CT how much i pwn them. i might even try to fly smart against the horde.