Author Topic: Here's my dirty laundry... (Read 1726 times)

TweetyBird · « **on:** January 16, 2004, 09:56:20 PM »

Here's two films off succesive flights tonight.

I think my flying is about avarage and my SA is about average.
You'll see my gunnery is horrible as numerous times I get set up for a shot and just plain miss. The question is it just a matter of keep practicing the gunnery or is it I'm choosing bad angles?

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shawnlau/2assists.zip
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shawnlau/1kill.zip

Suggestions welcomed and very much appreciated.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2004, 10:31:45 PM »

Thanks for the films, Tweety. Here are my thoughts.

The bad gunnery is more a lack of hamfisted flying when in close with enemies than it is about failing to aim. Are you using a twisty stick for your rudder? It seems that you get very rudder heavy when in close on an enemy, and this hard yawing back and forth keeps throwing off the shot. Try to stay steady and apply no rudder when firing at enemies for awhile. If you need to, even remove the rudder from your stick mapping for a night so you're forced to fly rudder free and pick an optimal shot that doesn't require any rudder input. Once you feel comfortable doing that, remap the rudder and begin using it for minor adjustments to aim rather than for major swings.

Also, try to range your shots and conserve ammo for the best possible shot. I know that's easier than it sounds, and it takes a lot of practice. The key here is to fire only when you think you're going to hit, and when you do fire just tap the trigger a couple of times to make sure you have ranged the shot correctly. If those shots hit, let him have it. What you don't want to do is hold down the trigger and kick the rudder around in the hopes that you'll hit the guy... that's terribly wasteful and inefficient.

Flying-wise, I think you rate your SA accurately. You do a good job of tracking a couple of guys through multiple views, but I did notice that your SA tends to break down when you have the enemy under your nose and out of sight for a couple of seconds. A number of times you pulled into a lead shot on a couple of planes, missed, and then failed to reacquire or figure out where the enemy went while he was out of sight. This didn't kill you or anything in the films, but it did rob you of some potential kills and allowed the enemies to stay afloat longer than they deserved. I think dueling with some folks in the Dueling Arena can seriously help you out here, since duels tend to turn into fights where you're pulling for shots and trying to keep your eyes on the other guy at all times. Duels should also help your aim in close.

Hope that helps!

-- Todd/Leviathn

RTR · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2004, 11:29:39 PM »

I agree with everything Leviathan surmised here too.
One more thing I might add :

You have a pretty severe nose bounce happening there. It is possible that you are inadvertently inputing rudder ( I used to be real bad for that), as Leviathan already stated. But, I didn't see alot of rudder input show up on the meter. I think you need to do some tweaking with your stick scaling maybe. Also (and it's a big also), make sure that you DO NOT have Force Feedback enabled in joystick set up. It will give you pretty severe stick twitches and cause nose bounce.

From the clipboard---->setup--->joystick--->click on the force feedback tab and see if it is enabled. (I believe it is enabled by default). To disable it, put an X in the "disable all forces" box and click apply. Calibrate your stick and see if it's better.

It sure looks like your gunnery is suffering because of this. You seem to be getting set up to take the shots, but with that nose bounce it pretty much commits you to "spray and pray".

Hope some of this helps.

Cheers,
RTR

TweetyBird · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2004, 11:59:22 PM »

Thank you both for some excellent advice.

I am using a twisty stick and the force feedback was enabled ( not anymore!). And you are right about being on the rudder constantly. Thiinking about it, I guess this could have other bad side effects along with poor gunnery. I know I use the rudder to slow down for landing, so I can imagine its constant use is bleeding a lot of E. I have no doubt this is a lot of the problem with spinning when I get slow. I'm going to take your advice and unmap it for awhile, and maybe even switch to pedals. Its just so easy to inadvertantly use when its on the stick.

And you are dead on about the up close SA. I constantly lose stuff under the nose. Offline, I practice flying extremely close (within 75 yards) to the drones tryin to keep them in view constantly as I roll around their flight path. But I guess thats no substitute for some time in the DA.

You've given me a good starting point of what I should be working on. I really appreciate the time you took to look at it .

Thanks!

Shane · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2004, 01:22:56 AM »

what kind of stick? ms ffb?

have you obtained (or set yourself) the optimal .hps (head position setting, aka, "view") files? the default views are truly horrible.

as an adjunct... have you mapped a button or key to enable a second set of veiws? i have an 8-way hat (ms ffb2) and i use button 6 to give me a second view set for a total of 17 views (16 mapped, 1 directly ahead).

haven't looked at films, tho'.

and about the force feedback. i only enable stall and buffet, and both at about 35%.

Tarmac · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2004, 01:36:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by TweetyBird

I am using a twisty stick and the force feedback was enabled ( not anymore!). And you are right about being on the rudder constantly. Thiinking about it, I guess this could have other bad side effects along with poor gunnery. I know I use the rudder to slow down for landing, so I can imagine its constant use is bleeding a lot of E. I have no doubt this is a lot of the problem with spinning when I get slow. I'm going to take your advice and unmap it for awhile, and maybe even switch to pedals. Its just so easy to inadvertantly use when its on the stick.

You're right on about the pedals. When I switched from a twisty stick to pedals, I had to completely relearn how to fly - especially shooting and flying at low speed and in hard turns. As Leviathn noted, this forces you to set up good shots instead of relying on rudder to fling the nose all over the sky, since rudder won't be second nature to you for a while.

In addition, for a few weeks/months you'll have to consciously think "right rudder, push with right foot" when you need it. This has the added bonus of ensuring that when you're not thinking rudder, you're not using it and bleeding E inadvertantly.

If you can afford them, I highly recommend pedals.

TweetyBird · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2004, 01:54:32 AM »

Its a microsoft sidewinder precision pro (8 way hat). It's probably about 4 years old and not used in the last 3 years. I have 2 view sets mapped - one for up views - one for regular. I do think I have the views set well. The six view is over my right shoulder, the 6 left and right are set back to catch both sides of the tail and the frontleft/frontright are set forward to catch the side of the of the nose ( sort of like leaning out the side looking forward). The side views are default. I also have front right down, front left down, back right down etc. views set to keep an eye on low planes without flipping over. These are on off buttons as they aren't used in the heat of combat. I use the main fire button to swith between up and regular views and use the key pad to fire guns.The forward view is set half way up the hud or windscreen.

After disabling the the force feedback, I'm wondering if the springs might be a little sloppy in the stick as I'm still getting some nose bounce. Then again it could be the scaling or just sloppy flying. I turned down the damping and this helped a little.

After unmapping the rudder, I see how dependent I was on it. I think I need to leave it off for awhile and become more precise with my flight path. It sure makes manual takeoffs interesting

Ghosth · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2004, 08:43:35 AM »

Instead of doing without it entirely, just put a LOT of deadband on it.

Also pull down the stick scaling so that the first 5 step up very slowly, then jump quickly to the top with the last 4.

This will give you finer control nearer the center, and max only if you max out the rudder throw.

Will a little experiementing you'll soon find that you can avoid kicking it in when you don't mean to. And when you do it will be a lot more subdued.

Give it a try

Soda · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2004, 10:52:20 AM »

I have that same stick, have the hat set to views, the base buttons set to views, one for zoom, one to primary fire, one to secondary fire, and the last button on the top of the hat to the "8-key" view that I have set to one side and high so I can look over the nose. I have the FFB turned off but have maxed the centering force on the stick to hold it steady. I've got a little deadband built in and the rudders are a little sensitive but Ghosth has the right idea to tone them down a bit. The stick has been VERY good to me and works great overall.

TweetyBird · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2004, 04:14:07 PM »

I bought a $21 Saitek stick. I'm going to put rudder on one stick and the pitch and roll on the other. I figure this won't be any harder to get used to than peddals, its cheaper, it gives me another hat and extra buttons. I'll just use vox more as my hands wont be as free for typing

nopoop · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2004, 12:56:44 PM »

Good film. You have the "yips" too. I'd recommend a set of pedals and working with your stick scaling. Cut your rudder scale back as Ghost explained, try it and fiddle with it until it's comfortable.

Watching the film made me crazy. I look around a WHOLE lot more than you do. I update all the time when planes are in the area. My altitude is usually quite lower so I guess it comes with the territory.

I have uncurable yips but scaled it back enough that it's managable.

Watching films by the guys that know how, you'll notice that they are as smooth as silk.

I suppose I could take drugs..

My problem is gunnery on passing shots. Typical sortie with assists. If I could shoot it would have been four. I got one. My cross to bear..

http://www.theblueknights.com/files/film_low.ahf

TweetyBird · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2004, 07:33:33 PM »

The "yips" plagued me in golf and in pool - why not here?

I know what you mean about smooth sticks, but I doubt I'll ever be one of those. Arnold Palmer never had what you'd call a pretty golf swing (in fact it was outright ugly), but he got the job done in spite of it. I think thats more or less what I'll have to try to do. Get it as smooth as possible and recognize the weakness when making decisions.

Thanks for the film also. The way I see it is the only reason you don't have at least 2 more kills on that film is that someone was shooting your carcasses. The p38 was definitely dead and spiraling into the water, I heard the F4U lose its engine and the spit is iffy. I guess thats part of it, and sometimes its not clear or maybe lag, but I really try not to shoot dead planes. I wouldn't have shot at the 38 or the first f4u after they were burning. In that film it seems bad luck was more a problem than gunnery.

On the spit, I'll just say this. If I was hunting with a buddy, and lined up on a rabbit, and he shot the rabbit from over my shoulder, I can't begin to convey how angry I'd be. Not from losing the rabbit, but the fact he could've killed me. I cant imagine too many WWII pilots took such a dangerous action.

All I can say is you have a cooler temper than I, NP.
Good film!

Seeker · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2004, 05:52:52 AM »

I used a sidewinder for a long time; and I found the following:

Using the Sidewinder software seemed to amplify nose bounce a bit (tho' that's not an option on an XP machine...)

Over time; the sidewinder's calibration (it's self calibrating on system start) and AH's calibration would become "out of synch"; leading to a vagueness and lack of stick authority while making very small changes from dead centre: in other words; it was great to fly with; and hell to aim with. Deleting the stick calibration data in AH/settings would fix it.

BigMax · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2004, 09:27:03 PM »

Am a dedicated MS FF PPro user (4+ years)...

It's probably not the stick... I have only ever had a (1) hat switch fail and have never had any calibration issues, other than I messing with a setting and overtweaking it on occasion.

As for losing people under your nose... I generally just lag persue until the other guy reverses.... then BLAMO when he's a duck. If I am forced to shoot under the nose, I pull ahead and squeeze off a short volley... then lag pursue and repeat as necessary. If you are not being pressed for a quick kill, take your time as "speed of kills" isn't really an important factor IMHO.

One last word, you don't have to be nearly as good when you are on someone's six - they WILL screw up somewhere....

38ruk · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2004, 12:56:09 PM »

i know that i had to set my sliders for pitch and roll all the way to the top for all scales , just slide all of them all the way to the top , ive had a few squadies that had had a problem with nose bounce and that cured it , thats the only way i can fly with my pp2 , try it u can always set them back GL ~~38maw~~