Author Topic: P-40 Fans  (Read 2818 times)

Offline REVGST

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
P-40 Fans
« on: January 18, 2004, 01:58:31 PM »
So, am I the only other avid 40 flyer out there besides my friend Honch? Am I the only person that thinks AH needs the N model P-40? Also, the scoring for a P-40 should be higher, even though I have gained many perks with it, it still takes more skill to fly em than a 51B:aok

Offline United

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2536
      • http://squadronspotlight.netfirms.com
P-40 Fans
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2004, 02:27:27 PM »
I enjoy flying the P-40, though I wouldn't choose it to fight in a 1 on 1 fight.  I love the challenge and skill it takes to win in it.  And the P-40N would be nice to see.

Offline leitwolf

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 656
P-40 Fans
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2004, 03:22:01 PM »
you're asking for a P-40N? Isn't the E good enough ?
Man what a dweeb! :D
Seriously, it would be nice to see the P-40 ENY values readjusted, right now the P-40E is rated better than many planes who eat little hawks for breakfast (P-47D11,Ki-61, F4U-1,La-5, 205 and F4F) and is on par with planes like a 109G-6 and Fw190-A5.
Nobody said the P40 sucks but... it is nowhere near the capability of a P51B yet has the same rating in the MA.
veni, vidi, vulchi.

Offline Raptor

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7577
P-40 Fans
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2004, 10:28:27 PM »
<--thinks we need bamboo drop tanks for P40b:aok

Offline REVGST

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
P-40 Fans
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2004, 08:44:32 AM »
I agree with you Wolf.  It is much easier to get a kill in a 205 or La5 compared to a P-40.  An ENY adjustment is deffenatly needed.

Offline REVGST

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
P-40 Fans
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2004, 09:06:22 AM »
Also, after reading P-40 pilot's accounts online, they claim that the P-40 was just as manurverable as a Zero.  In the MA this is nowhere near true because you stall out easier when turning with the Zero in a fight.  Do the flight dynamics of the 40 need to be changed, or am I wrong>  Go here to read about the 40....
http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/Shilling2.html

Offline Nod

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 249
P-40 Fans
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2004, 10:10:28 AM »
Sorry Revgst, but I have to dissagree the zero was way more manuverable then the p-40 could ever imagine being. Take Chennaults tactics for example, he always told his pilots DO NOT TURN WITH THE ENEMY PLANES (which would be the oscarthat he was talking about, but zero was only some 400-500 pounds heavier) they always just zoomed down through a formation of zero's and then climbed back up (basically boomed and zoomed em).

The only time I could imagine the P-40 out turning the Zero is after a 300mph+ dive, and that would only last for about once complete circle then the zero would start to gain on the p-40 in a circle.

Offline Nod

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 249
P-40 Fans
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2004, 10:20:24 AM »
After reading that article you have to remember that all pilots think that their plane is the best. That is all that is coming out of their mouth is just a opinion

The best example i can give of this is that ask people from diffrent countries about diffrent planes from the war people are usually goin to say a plane from their country. Such as Brits would think spit is best plane of war, Amercans would think P-51. So on and so forth. As for me the FW 190 was the best plane of the war but that is just my opinion

Offline REVGST

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
P-40 Fans
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2004, 10:37:18 AM »
Yes, I do agree with you on everyone has their own opinion about aircraft.  Just guess I should believe what pilots were saying, because I know, that the zero out-turns my 40,lol.

Offline jodgi

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 696
      • http://forum.mercair.net
P-40 Fans
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2004, 01:03:50 PM »
to all that fly the p40.

My idea of challenge is flying the G2 or G6, some drawbacks but some substantial strengths.

What does the p40 have? Drawbacks, sure, but strengths?...

The first line of this post was put there as a preemptive hipshot towards that it doesn't have any strenghts.

Offline seabat

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 150
P-40 Fans
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2004, 02:16:32 PM »
REVGST,

I read Shillings account and I see he defined maneuverability.  He also stated several times that turning (dogfighting) with a zero was a bad thing.

Using his definition the p40 seems reasonable in AH.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2004, 02:19:00 PM by seabat »

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8802
P-40 Fans
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2004, 07:02:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by REVGST
Also, after reading P-40 pilot's accounts online, they claim that the P-40 was just as manurverable as a Zero.  In the MA this is nowhere near true because you stall out easier when turning with the Zero in a fight.  Do the flight dynamics of the 40 need to be changed, or am I wrong>  Go here to read about the 40....
http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/Shilling2.html


Go back and review what Erik actually stated; "Of all the fighter planes flown against the Japanese, the P-40 was the most under-rated airplane and the Japanese Zero was the most overrated. Contrary to popular belief, the P-40's larger turning radius did not present a problem when understood, and proper tactics were used against the Japanese fighters. Also its lower rate of climb could easily be overcome. The P-40 which was more than 40 mph faster than the zero, could still climb at a speed that the zero was incapable of attaining. Pilots that tried to dogfight lost their lives. Whereas the hit and run tactic with a faster plane was the only way to fight the Hayabusa or Zero."

Erik was refuting the old argument that the Zero was superior because it could turn tighter circles than the P-40. Point in fact, the Zero was an extremely vulnerable fighter with a very limited bag of tricks. Maneuverability consists of far more than turning circles at low speed. By using the the P-40s fast roll rate, its dive and level speed advantage, and the ability to out-climb the zero at shallow angles (high-speed climbing), the P-40 could handle the Zero or the Ki-43, which it generally did.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline REVGST

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
P-40 Fans
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2004, 08:23:26 PM »
So widewing, do you feel that the flight model of the P-40 in the game is accurate? Just wanted some feedback form others to see how they felt about the 40.  What do you believe the bast tactic is for fighting with a 40? I usually come in high,  attack, and zoom back up as far as possible. Once I am almost back on the deck, I hit the WEP and run.  Does anyone have better tactis?  Thanks for all your help.

Offline Octavius

  • Skinner Team
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6651
P-40 Fans
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2004, 09:58:47 PM »
You need to be rather picky in a P40 when deciding when to engage and when not to.

1v1's are fun and are quite easy to win if you know what you're doing.  Learn to work the flaps nonstop throughout the entire engagement.  Two notches will burn E rather fast, so only use it if you need a tight turn.  Like any other energy fighter, the P40 can also use altitude as a bank.  Avoid flat turns as that merely expends energy with zero alt gain.  Go vertical as much as possible without putting yourself at the top of a loop 100 mph to spare and cons screaming in to pick you off.  SA.

2+v1's are the majority of the fights I find in the MA.  2v1 can be won if the other two are average and make a mistake.  The odds of surviving a gangbang (on the deck too) are slim, so dont get yourself in that position :)

The P40 is a great ride and many underestimate its abilities.  It can hang with the best... for about 2 seconds, then clever maneuvers must be utilized.
octavius
Fat Drunk BasTards (forum)

"bastard coated bastards with bastard filling?  delicious!"
Guest of the ++Blue Knights++[/size]

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8802
P-40 Fans
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2004, 01:55:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by REVGST
So widewing, do you feel that the flight model of the P-40 in the game is accurate? Just wanted some feedback form others to see how they felt about the 40.  What do you believe the bast tactic is for fighting with a 40? I usually come in high,  attack, and zoom back up as far as possible. Once I am almost back on the deck, I hit the WEP and run.  Does anyone have better tactis?  Thanks for all your help.


I find the P-40E to be reasonably well modeled. However, the AVG Tomahawk, incorrectly identified by HTC as a P-40B is seriously undermodeled in terms of power. AVG Tomahawks were fitted with hand built, blueprinted engines making about 200 more horsepower than the the P-40B. AVG Tomahawks were faster than the P-40Es they received in the Spring of 1942. This was confirmed by several AVG pilots who stated that the Tomahawk would simply walk away from the P-40E when both firewalled the throttles. Less weight, equal power...

However, the AVG guys preferred the serious improvement in firepower as well as the abiliy of the P-40E to carry a drop tank or up to a 500 lb bomb. The Tomahawks were not equipped to do either.

Erik's favorite fighter was a rather rare little monster built by Curtiss-Wright at their St. Louis plant. This was the CW-21 Demon. Developed from the CW-19 trainer, the Demon weighed in at 3,050 lbs empty, and was powered by a 1,000 hp R-1820 radial engine. Climb at full military load exceeded 4,800 ft/min. When about 50% of the fuel was burned down, climb rate edged up near 5,000 ft/min. It wasn't especially fast at just 305 mph. However, it accelerated faster than any fighter of its genre. In early 1939 it was a genuine terror. By 1940, it was redesigned with a cleaner, inward folding landing gear and the armament was increased from two machine guns to four. Erik, who flew a captured Ki-43, found the CW-21 to be "considerably more aerobatic, utterly untouchable in vertical combat." He was convinced that this little fighter could beat the Hayabusa and Zero at their own game. Few Air Forces purchased the CW-21, the Dutch being the biggest customer. Most CW-21s were destroyed on the ground, and several were captured. Extensively tested by the Japanese, they found it to be everything Japanese pilots valued in a fighter, and concluded that it was an outstanding aircraft. However, it was purely an interceptor. The Dutch completely misused the fighters. Most of the time, they were just getting airborne when Japanese fighters hit them. The few that survived gave a very good account of themselves. One Japanese pilot recalled how horrified he was to watch the little Demons pull into vertical climbs and just keep on going up like rockets. However, 30 or so CW-21s could do little hold off the hundreds of Japanese aircraft set against them.

The AVG took delivery of 3 CW-21s from those allocated for the Dutch. Unarmed and lacking radios all were lost in crash landings prior to making it to China. Contaminated fuel was the cause, with each aircraft suffering power loss while transiting very rough country. All were forced down in bad weather and were damaged beyond economical repair, with one pilot being killed.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.