Lazs, you know these folks?

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
the appointment of Janet Reno was the one area where I felt absolutely betrayed by Clinton.

(well, that and NAFTA)

She was the 3rd choice after Kimba Woods and Zoe Baird got busted in 'nannygate'.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by -MZ-
She was the 3rd choice after Kimba Woods and Zoe Baird got busted in 'nannygate'.

Someone forget their password?


-Sik

[Gunslinger]

It wasnt just ten tracer rounds that's just he plead too.  But I cant believe 10 tracer rounds will get you 5 years (16 months w/ probation)  He did have some explosives as well but most of the charges are pretty weak.  I cant beleive they both did time for this.  I've heard of people that do alot worse that dont end up doing time.  This is really sick!

And of course these people are right wing christians so no outcry from the left.

[edit]

and you wonder why gun rights activists have such a problem with having to register their fire arms

[-MZ-]

Originally posted by Sikboy
Someone forget their password?


-Sik

Something like that...

How did you know it was me???

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by GtoRA2
Did you know the sniper who did that did not have a legal order to shoot? The rules of engagement he had been told where wrong, and they guy who told him I  think knew they where wrong, or there was some miscumincation..

 The SOP rules of engagement were rewritten on site to fit the situation.
  Sort of like rewriteing the constitution on a paper bag everytime it doesn`t fit your likeing.

[lasersailor184]

Notice where this took place?


California.  Way to go california!  You've shat on the constitution MULTIPLE TIMES!

[lazs2]

I have no love for these people or the Waco leaders or Weaver but...

it is the level of force that scares me... is this our government?   Do they really fear us this much?   Are they so afraid of those who stray from the norm and.... are willing to be armed?  

The children and women killed by janet reno are not even thought about by most.   The OK city bombing killed less children.   There is no excuse for our government murdering children or destroying lives over petty crap.

California is simply the canary in the coal mine... as California goes so goes the country... don't believe it?   buckle up bucko and drive on in to the smog inspection station to see if you are allowed to drive your car.

lazs

[lazs2]

go ahead... keep letting the women vote... you will continue to have your mommy tell you what to do except you won't be able to move out this time... and...

as in the above example and janet murderin scum reno examples....   mommy mostly looks the other way when people do bad things but on occassion her hormones or post partum kick in and she pushes the car into the lake with her children in it.

lazs

[AKIron]

That's really a stretch Lazs. Neither Janet Reno, nor anyone else, with the possible exception of Koresh's bunch, killed those children intentionally.

Those people were breaking many laws and by several accounts the children were being sexually abused. Could there have been a different outcome with less loss of life? Maybe, we'll never know. Should law enforcement act to protect it's most defenseless citizens? Definitely.

[lazs2]

No... I believe that everything should be done to keep children from dying.   You don't save em from what may or may not be abuse by killing them.    You  don't take a shot that kills a mother.

anyone who thinks the level of govenment force was right is insane.   The laws that were being broken were pissant... just like in the above example... What laws were being broken at Waco that were so important?   if so... why not just arrest the guy when he goes jogging or to the market?  

in weavers case the law being broken was to take a hacksaw to the barrel of a $100 shotgun..  deep in the bowels of nowhere... hurting no one.    The government caused the deaths of those children.  

lazs

[Dune]

The biggest mistake, and what should be the major indictment against the way the Branch Dividian incident was handled happened before the initial assault.  

Koresh went into Waco to shop every week.  How much does it take to realize that if you believe a bunch of nuts have heavy weapons and live in a concrete compound with clear fields of fire shouldn't be assaulted head on?  This happened in Texas after all, hadn't any of the Feds heard of the Alamo?

Koresh should have been apprehended in town.  Without their leader inside the building, dollars to donuts says they would have given up.

[Mini D]

The dead children at Waco were not intentional.  I get a bit irritated everytime someone says it was.  I do, however, believe it was the direct result of incompetence.

I see the weavers not as an intentional shooting of a woman and child, but as mismanagement.

It's not that the feds have too much power, it's that they don't have enough sense at the management levels.

MiniD

[Hooligan]

It's not that the feds have too much power, it's that they don't have enough sense at the management levels.

I have neve seen any evidence that the feds have ever had any sense at the management level or at any other level, nor do I expect they ever will.  Rather than unrealistically hoping that they gain "sense", I would prefer to see their power drastically reduced.

Hooligan

[lazs2]

hooli hit it on the head...

mini di... I don't believe the people were intentionaly killed.  I believe that the government is so incompetent that they killed innocent people.   I believe that saving face was more important than saving children.   I believe that the BATF is a bunch of incompetent cowards and... more importantly... a needless and dangerous expense.   they should be disbanded.

Local authorities could have done a far better job in both the Waco and Weaver case and more importantly... children would not have been killed.  dune is correct.  but then... there would have been no publicity.... no trophy for the BATF.

If you can name a governmetn agency that isn't totaly screwed up and incompentent... I will be glad to hear about it.   I think the closest is the Military.. It is the only thing the constitution allows for in any case.

lazs

[Mini D]

I'd like a better review process and accountability process for scenes like ruby ridge and waco.  There needs to be accountability on the management scale as opposed to going after the field agents who were following bad orders.  I'm talking potential felony negligence type charges.  Reno should have been fired long before Waco.

MiniD