Author Topic: AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(  (Read 1437 times)

Offline Bullethead

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« on: January 22, 2004, 11:27:04 PM »
I've been looking through the stock skins for AH2 so far available and I hate to say it, but I'm extremely disappointed not to see any new plane parts to skin.  I just don't see any changes from AH1 in this regard.  If I missed the new parts, please point them out to me.

But assuming I'm right, then AH2 skins will have all the same limitations that AH1 skins had.  For them as don't know, here are some of those problems for the AH2 planes that currently exist:
  • P51D:  only 1 horizontal stabilizer texture, which is used for both top and bottom.  So the upper and lower surfaces will always be the same color.  Thus, no camo'd 51Ds with OD on the top and gray on the bottom.  Given that the AH2 skin sheets so far are laid out just like the AH1 skins for the same plane, I expect this problem to continue on all monochrome planes (silver and blue) as they are introduced, just like it did in AH1.  So no camo P38s, P47D30s, TBMs, F6Fs, Kates, Vals, or A6M2s, either.
  • Both P51s:  use of shared decals in MARKINGS.bmp for national insignia on wing.  Thus probably no way to change the insignia of 1 without changing the other's, plus you're stuck with the decal unless you want insignia on both wings.
  • C47 and B26:  only 1 nacelle side texture, so there's no way to put an anti-glare panel on the inner side of a silver plane.
  • Spits:  no separate textures for the cannon fairings, so I suppose their paint will be snatched out of the middle of the upper wing surface again, which means that if you change the camo pattern from stock, you'll get multi-colored cannon tubes.
  • All Planes:  only 1 lower wing texture that's used for both sides.  If this continues, there'll again be no way to do the Brit 1940 1/2 black-1/2 white belly, nor the 1941 "U.S. ARMY" on the bottom of the wing.


I was really hoping that this time, HTC would give us a separate terxture for each part of the plane at least.  Not having this imposes very severe limits on the types of skins we can make :(

Offline Purzel

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2004, 01:07:59 AM »
Is this true? Will there be an update, this is just a beta, you know, maybe it will get made up....


Would be such a shame....

Offline Kweassa

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2004, 01:54:06 AM »
Quote
Both P51s: use of shared decals in MARKINGS.bmp for national insignia on wing. Thus probably no way to change the insignia of 1 without changing the other's, plus you're stuck with the decal unless you want insignia on both wings.


 The interiors parts, this time, I think can be used all separate for all planes.

 I've done an Adolf Galland pilot skin, placed it in one plane folder. It doesn't show in the other planes, only that specific plane.. which probably means the cockpit guages and stuff, can be also customized(although probably unacceptable for MA).

Offline ramzey

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2004, 02:38:15 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2004, 02:59:41 AM by ramzey »

Offline Bullethead

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2004, 09:03:48 AM »
Kweassa said:
Quote
The interiors parts, this time, I think can be used all separate for all planes.  I've done an Adolf Galland pilot skin, placed it in one plane folder. It doesn't show in the other planes, only that specific plane.


So you can tweak the decal insignia for the P51B w/out ruining it for the P51D.  Well, that's cool as far as it goes, but it still leaves the bigger problem of having decal insignia at all.  The 51s have wing decals because they only have 1 upper wing surface texture, which gets mirrored.  So you can't avoid the decal without getting insignia on both wings, and Brit (for example) camo patterns would be the same on both wings.

I know this is a beta and all, so I hope this situation changes.

Offline Superfly

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2004, 09:06:27 AM »
That is the way they are going to stay.  It's not a mistake.  It's done to conserve download sizes, and also to fit in with video memory requirements in the game while maintain good quality.  If we did another texture for the other wings of the, for example, that would double the video memory requirement and the download size.  I don't foresee us changing that any time soon.
The guages are the same for all planes, except for the british.  That may or may not change in the future.
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Offline Reschke

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2004, 09:08:47 AM »
NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I was hoping that with the advent of AH2 and the ability to make custom skins that we would have textures that would allow us to make different patterns on the aircraft.

Currently I am working with some new skins in IL-2 and working on some for the Target:Hanoi mod and love the ability to have different textures mapped. Which give us the different color surfaces on both the top and bottom of the aircraft.
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Offline Superfly

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2004, 09:11:44 AM »
You can still do that.  There is nothing stopping you from changing the color.  You just have to abide by the format.  It's limited, I know, but I work with limits everyday.  You work with what you've got.
John "Superfly" Guytan
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Offline Dux

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2004, 09:33:58 AM »
nm
« Last Edit: January 24, 2004, 01:31:47 PM by Dux »
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Offline Bullethead

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2004, 10:12:09 AM »
SUPERFLY said:
Quote
That is the way they are going to stay.  It's not a mistake.  It's done to conserve download sizes, and also to fit in with video memory requirements in the game while maintain good quality.  If we did another texture for the other wings of the, for example, that would double the video memory requirement and the download size.


I think we're talking past each other.......

I understand about the hardware limitations.  However, HTC has already standardized all exterior plane parts on 2 files of the same size for all planes.  So whether the plane is camo or not, it still forces the system to handle 2 files of the same size.

So you've got these 2 files for each plane.  The only question is how you divide up the area into parts for the exterior surfaces.  With camo planes, you need more parts but with monochrome planes, you can get by with mirroring and thus use fewer parts.  This means each part for a monochrome plane can be bigger than for a camo plane, and thus have more detail on it.  But this precludes you ever putting camo on a monochrome plane, because the necessary parts do not exist.

This is what I wish you'd change.  Sure, the silver P51D is beautiful, but IMHO the smaller parts on the camo spits and FWs make equally beautiful planes.  Especially at the distances we see them at in the game.  I mean, who but a skin artist ever does a lot of close-up walkarounds drooling on the rivets?  IOW, to me there is NOT a quality issue here.

So PLEASE consider redoing the arrangement of parts for the monochrome planes.  Dispense with mirroring, at least on the upper surfaces, and give us the same parts for each plane whether its stock skin is camo or not.  That way, we'd be able to put camo on planes that come silver or blue overall, and thus GREATLY increase the variety in the skins available to the players.  And the only cost of doing this would be a slight loss of detail on the stock monochrome planes, that nobody would notice in flight.

If you can't swing separate lower wing surfaces under the hardware constraints, I understand.  It's only really an issue for a few early-war planes anyway.   I can do without separate parts for spit cannon fairings if you cant squeeze them into some unused corner.  But PLEASE let us have both upper wings, both upper stabilizers, and at least 1 separate lower stabilizer for all planes.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

Offline Superfly

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2004, 12:49:02 PM »
It won't change any time soon.  I'm sorry.  It ain't gonna happen.  We only have two artists, and we are already redoing 4 years worth of artwork.  We have standardized our way of doing things for now.  Our primary concern is finishing AH2, not remaking textures that we've already spent a considerable amount time on just to satisfy a few people.
Once AH2:TOD is out, maybe things will change, but that is a long ways away.  For now, you will have to work within the limitations given, just as we have to do here.
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Offline Mitsu

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2004, 12:49:13 PM »
Custom Skin feature is great idea for designers! :aok

Offline Dux

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2004, 01:00:53 PM »
Fair enough. Thanks.
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Offline vorticon

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2004, 01:34:38 PM »
:lol  what "new" plane parts were you expecting to be able to skin??? the inside of the fuel tanks...

Offline mos

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2004, 02:06:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
:lol  what "new" plane parts were you expecting to be able to skin??? the inside of the fuel tanks...

Did you not read any post in the thread?