Author Topic: AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(  (Read 1417 times)

Offline MC_Honky

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2004, 02:25:45 PM »
Once AH2:TOD is out, maybe things will change, but that is a long ways away

Oh oh- the cat is out of the bag.:(

Offline Dennis

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2004, 02:51:34 PM »
This is a shame.  Quite disappointing, really.  

And it's a questionable judgment to say it's something that would please only "a few."  The skinning communities of sims that accomodate them are quite large.  Who's to say it wouldn't be the same in AH?

You've obviously taken a different approach to the issue of ingame graphics -- which is your prerogative, of course -- so I'll be content, I suppose, that AH2 promises other improvements to look forward to.

Splash1

Offline Reschke

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2004, 03:48:07 PM »
Thanks for the input here Superfly. I understand what you are talking about and 1024 is a BIG ARSE texture file to play with for a skin. I am just hoping that the future will allow things like being able to have textures on each side that allow you to alter the look of an aircraft from either side with slightly different camo, etc...

Thanks again!
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Offline ramzey

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2004, 04:36:19 PM »
"custom skins" term should never be used

i just realize we force HTC to please us and to use it

most of planes never will have correct custom skins



Big size of bitmaps give  skinners great possibilyty to beat all other simulator games. Errors and limitation push AH2 3 years back.




whan i notice anouncment about beta 11. I cant wait to download it.
Better i will not describe my feelings now

Good bye
mustang in RAF markings
Good bye
P40 in russian, New zeland, raf  markings

Good bye
hurricane from BoB

Good bye........................

Offline Barney Fife

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2004, 04:52:12 PM »
God, some of you guys are serious drama queens

Offline Bullethead

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2004, 05:20:10 PM »
SUPERFLY said:
Quote
Once AH2:TOD is out, maybe things will change


I certainly hope it does.  I think you're quite wrong to say making the change would satisfy only "a few people".  The number of guys who can make skins to your standards might indeed be small, but the number of people who very much want and would use a large variety of skins probably amounts to 90% of your customer base.

Offline Octavius

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2004, 05:46:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
[BGood bye
mustang in RAF markings
Good bye
P40 in russian, New zeland, raf  markings

Good bye
hurricane from BoB

Good bye........................ [/B]


I'm sorry, but whats stopping you from creating the decal right on the wing?  or fuselage?  or Tail?
octavius
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Offline ramzey

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2004, 06:48:56 PM »
i see hope

if i read that correct markings.bmp file will affect only current skin you use and nothing else ( i hope, need to be tested online)

If yes this should be not big problem and can be corrected by add markings_a.bmp file

But if its affect display of all other skins. Will be problem for sure.

Main problem of skins is duplicate wing and parts of fuselage.
Hurricane from BoB had one wing white one black (bottom). With current bitmap mapping you can crete only half of airplane, secound half is just mirror.

On Mustang front part of fuselage (engine cover) is mirrored (left and right side are same. But from cockpit to tail is used secound part of bitmap (both sides are fully displayed on skin, and only part of secound is used).

Som IJN planes have elevator skin used for top and bottom (white one) To paint green camo on them you need both of them. Top green , bottom gray. If you have only one skin pice used to on them, obvious is green elevator will be on top and bottom. Wich is historical incorrect.

Same "limitation" affect other planes. As i see som are fixed and redone. But mostly skinning is dedicated for one and only one camo/ plane markings.

So, old "skins bugs" from Ah1 are repeat in AH2 (mostly)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2004, 06:51:24 PM by ramzey »

Offline TweetyBird

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2004, 08:49:29 PM »
Give a draftsman the finest oils, inks, and canvases, and he will say he needs more to complete the picture. Give an artist a patch of sand and a stick and he will produce the most beautiful picture.
I think anyaway :D

edit : oh thats pretentious as hell, but there is a lot that can be done with the current setup.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2004, 08:55:01 PM by TweetyBird »

Offline Bullethead

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2004, 01:33:35 AM »
TweetyBird said:
Quote
Give a draftsman the finest oils, inks, and canvases, and he will say he needs more to complete the picture. Give an artist a patch of sand and a stick and he will produce the most beautiful picture.


Well, what's got everybody riled up here is that we were expecting all of AH1's skinning problems to be gone in AH2.  I mean, HTC had to do everything over from scratch anyway, and this time skinning was to be a real feature useable by everybody in the MA, instead of being restricted to guys making their own maps.  And for several years now, those who've been making skins have been begging HTC to remove the limitations that many planes have to being reskinned.

But that didn't happen.  Despite all the above, HTC kept things just like they were in AH1, so we still face all the same limitations we've had all along.  Sure, so far I've noted a couple of minor improvements at the detail level, but those are very small potatoes compared to the major problems left untouched.  

So those of us who've been doing skins for a while are extremely disappointed and bitter about it.  You know, hopes dashed, the feeling of opportunity missed, constructive feedback ignored, etc.  The skin feature was the 1 new thing I was really looking forward to in AH2.  I mean, flight model improvements are great, but those are expected as the product evolves and are things you just take in stride as they happen.  Oh well....

Quote
but there is a lot that can be done with the current setup.


Sure, you can do a lot of things, but there are severe limitations.  Basically, the colors of the stock skin determine what you can do in a new skin, as follows:

MONOCHROME STOCK SKINS: (all silver or all blue)
This includes most late USAAF and USN planes, and the early IJN planes.  The upper wing mirrors L/R and there's only 1 stabilizer texture that mirrors L/R and U/L.  Due to this, you can only do the following:
  • Keep the plane the same basic color and change only the trim and unit markings
  • Give the plane solid camo top and bottom (like green/gray), but you also have to paint the entire stabilizer in a trim color


BICHROME STOCK SKINS: (different, solid colors top and bottom)
This includes most early USAAF and USN planes, and the later Japanese planes.  The upper surfaces mirror L/R but at least you have separate upper and lower stabilizer textures.  This means you can do the following:
  • Keep as is, changing only the trim and unit markings
  • Convert to monochrome
  • Add multi-colored camo, but the pattern will be the same on both wings, which is hardly ever realistic


CAMO STOCK SKINS: (multiple colors with different patterns on the upper surface)
This includes all the Brit and German planes, plus a few others like the Ki61 and P40E (assuming they follow the trend and keep their AH1 paintjobs).  Here the only mirroring is the lower surface, so you can do anything EXCEPT have something assymetrical on the bottom.  IOW, no Brit black/white schemes, no U.S. ARMY, etc.

But these broad limitations aren't the only problems.  Many planes have parts that you can't touch at all, but which will always be the color from the stock skin.  Many others have decals for unit markings or whatever that are difficult to deal with.  Sometimes you can work around these, sometimes you can't, so that some planes that are otherwise perfectly skinnable are ruined by these effects.  Examples are the spinners on FWs and 109s and (from AH1), the nose spikes of the 109G6, the cheek guns on the B17, and the anti-glare strip on the P47D30.  There are others and you'll be very frustrated when you encounter one of them after putting several hours into a project.

Offline jpeg

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2004, 10:58:17 AM »
It's sad how many people complain that they don't have more parts to skin even though you have been given plenty of valid reasons why this is the case.

If you get your way then it adds a LOT more work for the developers, so you will complain about the game being late. And it will make the game slower for certain people, so again, you will complain...


Get over it and apreciate the work the company is putting into the game.

Offline Dux

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AH2 Skins: No New Plane Parts :(
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2004, 01:17:34 PM »
nm
« Last Edit: January 24, 2004, 01:31:21 PM by Dux »
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