P38 weapon load outs

[Delirium]

Had a discussion with some other fellow P38 enthusiats last night concerning the ammo load and weight of the same. I did a search on all the back threads, but I didn't see any hard data concerning the 200 rounds per gun, compared to the 500 rounds per gun. To sum up;

1. On personal preference, what do you fly with? The light or the heavier ammo load?

2. More importantly, does anyone have any hard data regarding the difference betwwn the two?
----

1. Personal prefence for me, I figure the ammo load is in front of the center of gravity and is much lessened than it would be in the wings along the center of gravity. Yes, there is an effect but very minor.

2. I have no hard data, unfortunately.

Thanks in advance, P38 sticks

[Sway]

I always fly with full ammo load because I usually don't have a problem moving it around anymore, but I know if you choose small ammo load, you will feel a small difference, it just seems more responsive to me.

[Bodhi]

I'm still upset over the lack of 2k eggs being available to the weapon loadout.

[Ecliptik]

I always fly with 200 rounds per gun if I'm upping as a fighter.  1200 extra .50 cal rounds adds a few hundred extra pounds, and it's noticable.  Plus, as long as you're a decent shot, 800 .50 cal and 150 20 mm is enough to score 8-10 kills in a sortie, especially if you reserve your MG ammo until your cannon is out.


On the other hand, if you're on a jabo mission, 2000 MG rounds is handy for strafing.

[Ack-Ack]

I always use the full ammo load out.  More lead to put into the air is a good thing.  I've also never noticed any appreciative advantage in having the lower ammo load, whatever improvement it gives to maneuverabilty is hardly, if at all, noticable.

I've also asked 3 former P-38 pilots this same question and they all said they would always take a full ammo load.  Not one of them could remember gaining any type of maneuvering advantage from taking a lighter ammo load.


ack-ack

[BUG_EAF322]

i load my p38 always to the fullest.
And fight according to my weight.

[lord dolf vader]

what is the actual weight of 1200 .50cal rounds?

[Ack-Ack]

2,000 rounds of .50 cals.  500 rounds each .50 cal.



ack-ack

[Wolfala]

With all the ammunition we go through in a given mission - all of that add's up to a $$ amount. Lets take a normally equipped P-38L with 2000 rds of 50 cal and 150 rds of 20mm. According to this matrix which is several years old....

50 cal API is $2.03 x 2000 = $4,060.00
20mm PGU-28 if you could is it $16.91 x 150 = $2,536.00
If you throw two 500 lb bombs into the mix, the MK-82 is the closest bet: 2 x $1,706.97 = $3,413.94
Fuel: 418 gallons 100 octane @ $2.80 / gallon (National avg pretty much): $1,170.40

So a typical combat loadout comes to: $11,180.34

Not included are hourly operating costs, maintence, engine replacement fund, insurance, cost for training, sexing and paying off your maintence chief who will make you **** the bullets he must take from your airframe. Thought you guys should know

Best,

Wolf


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Munitions Acquisition Cost
Table A11-1 is provided for the purpose of estimating munition costs. Munition costs reflect the contract price per unit, as of the last procurement escalated to current dollars. For Items procured through the Single Manager for Conventional Ammunition (SMCA) costs may vary each year due to changes in price surcharges. Item costs are generally for the most common complete round configuration and do not include minor sub-component items like clips, wires, plugs, etc. OPR: Capt Brian Withrow, HQ USAF/ILSR, DSN: 225-2840
AFI 65-503 COST AND PLANNING FACTORS
Attachment 11
May-97
WEAPON 97 $

ROCKETS
2.75" HE W/MK66 $482.20
2.75" WP W/MK66 $484.36
2.75" SIGNATURE $461.18
SIGNALS, MARKERS, FLARES
AIRBURST SIMULATOR M74A1 $21.62
ALA-17 $357.60
GROUNDBURST SIMULATOR $5.28
LUU-2B FLARE $557.35
LUU-4 $450.00
M-206 CART FLARE# $12.24
MJU-10B FLARE# $60.32
MJU-2 $131.31
MJU-23 FLARE# $803.86
MJU-7B FLARE# $23.31
RR-170 $1.97
RR-180 CHAFF# $13.99
RR-188 CHAFF# $2.33
SIGNAL PERS DISTRESS KIT $93.00
SMOKEY SAM SIMULATOR $101.05
# PRICE INCLUDES IMPULSE CARTRIDGE

CARTRIDGES
.50 CALIBER API $2.03
.50 CALIBER 4-I $2.39
.50 BALL $2.50
.50 CALIBER API-T $2.94
5.56MM BALL $0.39
5.56MM BLANK, SAW $0.35
5.56MM TRACER, SAW $0.52
7.62MM BALL & TRACER OR BALL $0.60
7.62MM 4-I $0.72
7.62MM MATCH GRADE $0.97
7.62MM TR $0.38
20MM HCI PGU-28 $16.91
20MM PGU-27 $4.87
20MM TPT BULK PGU-30 $8.31
30MM TP $7.73
30MM HEI $24.75
40MM HEDO $15.41
40MM TP M781/M888 $2.12
40MM HEDP $16.14
40MM CS $8.95
40MM API $7.82
40MM TP $14.54
105MM HE $160.00
105MM WP $63.72
12 GA SHOTGUN 00 BUCKSHOT $0.30
9MM BALL $0.13

CLUSTER BOMBS
CBU-52 $2,280.00
CBU-58 $2,973.00
CBU-71 $4,692.00
CBU-87 $12,370.30
CBU-87(WCMD) $55,746.00
CBU-89 $40,114.21
CBU-97 (SFW) $329,084.00
CBU-97 (SFW)(WCMD) $349,524.00
MK-20 ROCKEYE $3,711.00
UNGUIDED BOMBS
BDU-33 25 LB $16.04
BDU-50 LOW DRAG (INERT) $502.77
BDU-50 HIGH DRAG (INERT) $831.77
MK-82 LOW DRAG $1,706.97
MK-82 HIGH DRAG $2,117.97
MK-84 LOW DRAG (INERT) $2,380.00
MK-84 HIGH DRAG (INERT) $3,576.38
MK-84 LOW DRAG $3,695.35
MK-84 HIGH DRAG $5,755.93
BDU-56 $3,576.38
BLU-109 $10,229.87
M-117 $999.40
NOTE: MINOR SUBCOMPONENTS INCLUDING CLIPS, WIRES, PLUGS, ETC ARE NOT INCLUDED IN ABOVE PRICES.

GUIDED BOMBS
GBU-10 (MK84) $24,721.89
GBU-10 (I2K) $30,501.42
GBU-12 $21,896.00
GBU-15 (TV) $224,882.84
GBU-15 (IR) $222,038.12
GBU-15 $227,264.12
GBU-15 (IR) $224,419.40
GBU-24 (MK-84) $54,246.38
GBU-24 (I2K) $60,641.34
GBU-27 $58,222.14
GBU-28 $100,699.00
JDAM/MK-84 $22,339.27
JSOW/BASELINE $188,048.00
JSOW/BLU-108 $324,996.00
NOTE: MINOR SUBCOMPONENTS INCLUDING CLIPS, WIRES, PLUGS, ETC ARE NOT INCLUDED IN ABOVE PRICES.

MISSILES
AGM-65A MAVERICK $17,505.00
AGM-65B MAVERICK $19,000.00
AGM-65D MAVERICK $112,000.00
AGM-65G MAVERICK $109,763.00
AGM-84 HARPOON $334,100.00
AGM-86C CALCM $600,000.00
AGM-88B $181,458.88
AGM-88C HARM $235,986.48
AGM-130 A/C IR $360,766.00
AGM-130 TV $331,000.00
AGM-142A HAVE NAP $737,000.00
AGM-142D HAVE NAP $635,000.00
AIM-7M $178,474.14
AIM-9M $44,080.00
AIM-120A $1,079,600.40
AIM-120B AMRAAM $525,564.00

OTHERS
JPF $3,793.00

Munitions Designators

Designator Description
AGM Air To Ground Missile
AIM Air To Air Infrared Missile
ALA Ancilliary Light Assy.
API Armor Piercing Incendiary
API-T Armor Piercing Incend.w/TR
BDU Simulated Bomb Units
CBU Cluster Bomb Unit
CS Chemical Fill
GBU Guided Bomb Unit
HE High Exlosive
HED High Explosive
HEI High Explosive Incendiary
HEIT High Explosive Dual Purpose
LAU Launcher
LUU Luminating Unit
M Model Designator
MK Mark/Model Designator
MJU Munition Countermeasure
PGU Ammunition Unit
RR Radar Reflector
SAM Surface To Air Missile
S&I Smoke & Illuminating
TP Target Practice
TPT TP-Tracer
TR Tracer
WP White Phosphorous

[OIO]

Take full load always. If you think the plane would fly better for you with less ammo, feel free to pump 1000 rounds into your first target.

[Tequilla]

light load for me always

[killnu]

always light load here as well.
~S~

[Pooh21]

Heavy load thats 5 more kills.



P38s could carry torps?

FA says so.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Pooh21
Heavy load thats 5 more kills.



P38s could carry torps?

FA says so.

There were some tests on a G model that was equipped to drop them but don't think anything ever got beyond the testing stage.


ack-ack

[Sway]

If you can fly it, you'll load the full loadout because the small runs out too fast.  Even if your a good shot, your still going to take longer to kill, to get in close range, and get less ammo to shoot.

The the advantage to kills to weight is leaning to heavy to the kills for me, not worth going light IMO.