Author Topic: Hey, conservative dudes!  (Read 2222 times)

Offline miko2d

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Hey, conservative dudes!
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2004, 03:24:16 PM »
ra; Read your own cut n paste:  "The first and most obvious commie message is Andy’s refusal to carry a gun."

 The content can carry what we refer to as "message" without the autor having intent or "agenda".
 Many people claim that the violent games or movies carry a message that violence is OK, but the authors vehemently deny putting any message there.

Unless he could prove Andy Griffith had an effect on society, subtle or otherwise, then he is just engaging broad speculation.

 That is true.
 
There's nothing elitist about those,

 A culture - or any human endeavor - is considered elitist if a considerable effort is required to learn to appreciate and understand the subtleties of the issue. It takes a lot of effort and upbringing/education before one can understand/enjoy Bach or Homer.
 On the other hand the mass culture comes prepared for immediate consumption - "ready to eat".

but using the logic of this author, all of those sources of classical western elitism could be said to have spawned communism and fascism, amongst other isms.

 Some members of the western elite certainly contributed to origination of  communism and fascism. So what?

 miko

Offline Rude

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Re: Hey, conservative dudes!
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2004, 03:33:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Culture poll. What do you think about the old "Andy Griffith Show" sitcom?

 Is it true that the blatant load of stinking insidious left-liberal non-american corrupting Hollywood propaganda was one of the most loved shows supposed to protray real american values?

 Liberals are not asked to reply here. I am sure you will find that piece of communist trash not destructive enough of the traditional american values. And you may be right.
 But if you want to contribute to civil discussion, you are welcome.

 miko


Miko....

When will you learn that the reality in which you were raised does not define ours...your opinions are interesting from time to time, however, they are not classified as the ultimate and single truth.

Offline Munkii

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« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2004, 03:50:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
There is MTV and there is "The 11th Heaven" or "Saved by an Angel" or something and few others with clearly chrisian agenda. There are animal shows that may turn an impressionable child vegetarian. All make money but also influence our minds.
 I believe it is the parent's job to do that, so I am probably going to rip off the antenna from my TV and store up some good DVDs that reflect my values.

 miko



When you force your values onto your child, do you do so with a wide variety of programming stimulating not only your values into him, but others as well?  Or do you simply show him what you want him to learn, and give him your opinion and not allow him to form his own?  

By allowing unrestricted access to the television (within reason), you would allow him a wide variety of view points from which to make his decision.   My personal belief's are mine, and mine alone.  Infact my grandparents (who raised me) have a completely different set of ideals than myself.  They are very conservative/authoritarian/religious in beliefs.  I'm a liberal/libertarian/athiest in beliefs.  

They tried to impress upon me in my youth their values, but having them force fed to me left me wanting to taste the other side, which I found I liked better anyways.

edit: formatting changes

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2004, 04:00:32 PM »
On a side note, Barney Fife is the funniest character in sitcom history.. IMHO.

Offline Charon

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« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2004, 04:43:38 PM »
Well, a lot of those influences drive plot and lead to character development. Now, take away these elements and you have a rather boring form of non entertainment. Perhaps another "Leave it to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" but at a time when television was looking to branch out a bit from the perfect family sitcoms of the 1950s. The elements may not be much of an edge, but they added some edge by comparison.The other part is a primary focus of the show -- the kind simplicity of small town life.

- Since Andy could never cheat on a spouse, having him a widower allows for the introduction of romantic tension. Adding romantic tension leads to the typical male female stereotypes (unreasonable, hysterical women/poor suffering clueless men) that is the opposite of stereotypical PC leftist ideology. It also allows for romantic comedy with Barney.  Add wives and you lose 30 percent of the entertainment value and story ideas.

- Andy's "as needed" gun policy just pointed out how little a gun was actually needed. And, as i recall, when it was needed it was because of some city slicker bandit. [edit: and Andy actually was ready and willing to use deadly force if required, and showed a level of respect and gun safety that would be at home in an NRA handbook]

- The anti-gender stuff (male buffoons from the sticks) cited is more of a reflection of the class structure that exists and existed in small towns where those from the other side of the tracks, or, in this case, living in shacks in the woods are regarded as backwards even by small town standards. Indeed its a reflection that the conservative but civilized townspeople (who might be made fun of by a NY elite) can themselves poke fun at their less affluent neighbors. I even seem to recall episodes where a female "hick" was hot for andy and played the buffoon.  It may have been a class message, but a fairly conservative one where you can poke innocent fun at others you regard [gently in this case] as beneath you. I mean, none of the good townspeople were ever actually interested in crossing those class lines and returning the affections -- just wasn't done.

- Town drunk? Alcoholics (at least "good drunks") were generally seen as "funny" at the time and remained so into the 1970s. Ever watch a Dean Martin Roast? In fact, alcohol is the conservative's drug of choice. A liberal message would have likely shown the dark side of alcoholism.

- Town Miser? Another stock character that is timeless.

- Dinner timing (diner meals at 10:00 pm) and cocktails? Probably just a disconnect between east coast/west coast writers and the specific environment they were portraying. Inaccurate, but I don't see the solical message. Diners did exist and small town people did drink, though not typically at a cocktail hour.

- Domestic disputes and child abandonment? Also a part of life, small town or not, and I don't recall them being either glorified or allowed to pass without a morally acceptable conclusion. There were no unhappy endings in Mayberry.

- "killing a bird (by accident, no less) is about the greatest crime imaginable." Actually a lesson in the fact that actions have consquences, and you have to take responsibility for your actions. Also, that you must let go of those you love when it's time for them to go out and grow on their own.

Pretty weak and poorly developed arguments, really. Factually inaccurate in many areas as well. Now, if you want to talk communism, talk Gilligan's Island :)

Charon
« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 06:42:58 PM by Charon »

Offline Mighty1

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« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2004, 05:32:31 PM »
miko2d wrote:
Quote

I do not know what you mean by "civil" but in my definition it is a discussion that does not devolve to accusations about the personal flaws of the participants and concentrates on the virtues of the argument.
Since I was the only participant when I posted my thread, I cannot see how I could have made disparaging remarks about anyone's character.
Or do you mean "uncivil" is everything that you do not agree with?


What I mean is that you ask a question in a way that slams a TV show and then associate it with liberals. You then tell them the only way they can participate is if they are "civil".

You make it sound like they have a problem being "civil".

You were Pointing out a percieved "personal flaw" and by your own definition made the discussion "uncivil" before anyone replied.
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2004, 05:33:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Bodhi: For the Record, I think Andy Griffith and his show were a wonderful idea.

 Yes. It seems to have programmed you thoughroughly.

 You do not wish to know anything you do not understand and would offend a person for no reason at all, except to justify your desire not ho hear - because I am not forcing you to read my stuff and you do not have to offend me to make me shut up. You can just skip my posts. But you don't. You and Dago should form a "miko makes me feel bad and I am obsessed" support group.
 miko


Miko,

You are the epithany of a typical liberal New York know-it-all.  What gives you the feeling that just because you read some slanted west village idiot's depiction of the Andy Griffith Show and then spout it out as your own concoction that you are correct.  Sadly, you might be trying this as an attempt at humor, which is failing miserably, other than that people are laughing at you.  Furthermore, I notice that there is not anyone else who posts here that finds that you post anything of substance or value.  I suggest you go stand on a soap box and spout out in town, ratehr than taking up band width with your inane gibberish.

:rolleyes:
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Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2004, 07:34:38 PM »
When you were a kid, you had no mental facilities in place to discern what you are seing.



:rofl     King Miko, gotta love him.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline WilldCrd

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« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2004, 07:58:21 PM »
Who's Andy Griffith?:confused:
Crap now I gotta redo my cool sig.....crap!!! I cant remeber how to do it all !!!!!

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2004, 10:38:09 AM »
seriously.... would any of you (except maybe kappa) want the women in that show decieding what you could and couldn't do?

lazs

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2004, 10:40:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
seriously.... would any of you (except maybe kappa) want the women in that show decieding what you could and couldn't do?

lazs


no.

But I wouldn't want Floyd, Barney, Goober, Oppie, Ottis or Earnest Bass deciding either :)

It's just a show.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2004, 10:43:06 AM »
nuke... those guys wouldn't vote.   If they did they would most likely cancel each other out in their confussion.... But the women... they are dillegent in taking away your toys.

lazs

Offline miko2d

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Re: Re: Hey, conservative dudes!
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2004, 01:52:21 PM »
Rude: When will you learn that the reality in which you were raised does not define ours...your opinions are interesting from time to time, however, they are not classified as the ultimate and single truth.

 Absolutly. What I say is my opinion only - though I voice opinions that I think I can justify and explain. Of course my justifications and explanations may not be satisfactory to everyone.
 I know that some americans and other westerners share pretty much every one of my views - and many of those I've aquired while here, so the origin may not be the ultimately defining issue here.


Munkii: When you force your values onto your child, do you do so with a wide variety of programming stimulating not only your values into him, but others as well? Or do you simply show him what you want him to learn, and give him your opinion and not allow him to form his own?

 You use terms in very contradictory meanings, but I will try to answer.
 Values are preferences for goals. While selection of means is subject to logical argument, the goals are pretty much a matter of revealed/random origin. We may discuss what's the best means to liberate or enslave people but if someone wants to be a slave, there is nothing logical I can say to have him select loving freedom. All arguments are about te better way to reach a goal and if he is trying to reach a different goal, there is nothing to say.
 Mind can be affected when it is still able to receive "programming" - as a child, or preferences may be affected trough feelings - "I like the taste of meat so much I decided to stop being vegetarian", or when a mind is receptive to certain influence but not by logic.

 With this in mind, I will absolutely try to raise my child with my goals/values. If I thought them deficient, I would not subscribe to them. If I think them good, why would I give my child something I think bad or allow them to be set randomly?
 That's as far as values/goals are concerned.

 Then I will teach my child skills - which are the tools that can be used to reach various goals. The most important skill is the ability to think skeptically, logically, creatively and in structured manner.

 I will certainly restrict my child from being contaminated by views contrary to me - while his mind is working in "trust what you hear" mode. That does not mean I will keep him totally in the dark but I will give him carefully measured and encapsulated pieces that he can grasp and provide explanations. Like giving someone a vaccine.

By allowing unrestricted access to the television (within reason), you would allow him a wide variety of view points from which to make his decision.

 That is all fine when a person is old enough to examine information critically. A young child does not posess an ability to critically process information.
 The information does not get processed by his mind but forms it. It would be incredibly stupid of me to let my child's mind be formed by a random process.

 The term "force" does not apply here because there is no mind yet to force anything into it. You do not "force" a structure into a building. You build a structure where none existed and house appeares. Only then the house can exist so it can be "forced". So is the mind.


Mighty1: What I mean is that you ask a question in a way that slams a TV show and then associate it with liberals. You then tell them the only way they can participate is if they are "civil".

 I did not think that "slamming" the old show would be so personally offensive to anyone. If it was, I appologise - it was my miscalculation.
 Some people take offence at being called "liberal" but most of them would admit to enjoying "liberal" shows.


Bodhi: You are the epithany of a typical liberal New York know-it-all.

 Whatever the rest of your words mean, why do you use "liberal" here? The word "liberal" has a very specific meaning and denotes political affiliation and certain philisophical views - like preeminence of social rights over personal rights and  approval of social engineering.
 It seems to me that you are the one posting gibberish - throwing words in regardless of their meaning.

 Unless you really think that my views and those expressed in the article are liberal instead of anti-liberal - in which case you are... err.. have to be civil here... cognitively challenged.


What gives you the feeling that just because you read some slanted west village idiot's depiction of the Andy Griffith Show...  that you are correct.

 What gives anyone the feeling that he is correct? Experience and logic, both of which may or may not be deficient.
 I saw the show recently and formed an opinion based on my experience - and recalled an article I've read a few years ago. I though it would be interesting to people here and wanted to see the reaction for my own knowlege.

 Disclosing one's opinion to others is way to get some feedback, hear opposite views and have a chance to re-evaluate that opinion.
 You seem to oppose my opinion and you are concerned enough to post a few messages.  Yet you provide no explanations or arguments - which makes me conclude you are not able to.

and then spout it out as your own concoction

 You mean I plagiatrised? I am sure I included the autor's name in the quote of the article.

Furthermore, I notice that there is not anyone else who posts here that finds that you post anything of substance or value.

 That just shows how much you notice and what kind of mental capacity you have if you reach such conclusions.
 Anyway, why are you here? Put me on ignore. I will certainly not pay much attention to your statements, as they seem to have zero content.

 miko

Offline Bodhi

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Re: Re: Re: Hey, conservative dudes!
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2004, 09:54:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
Bodhi: You are the epithany of a typical liberal New York know-it-all.

 Whatever the rest of your words mean, why do you use "liberal" here? The word "liberal" has a very specific meaning and denotes political affiliation and certain philisophical views - like preeminence of social rights over personal rights and  approval of social engineering.
 It seems to me that you are the one posting gibberish - throwing words in regardless of their meaning.

 Unless you really think that my views and those expressed in the article are liberal instead of anti-liberal - in which case you are... err.. have to be civil here... cognitively challenged.
 miko


Miko, what flipping dictionary are you getting your meanings from?  Maybe you should be the one to look that word up, specific meaning my arse...  FYI sir-know-it-all Miko, there are 9 seperate definitions to the word liberal with 4 subsets.  Seems to me, that you, with your all superior attitude have gone and decided how yet something else should be viewed.  As for your views, I think they are poor, misguided, and the end result of a piss-poor upbringing with a degree in basket weaving (from Bennington College) thrown in for good measure.

Ohh, and, telling me that I have poor perception, or judgement after you accuse the Andy Griffith Show of being communist, is icing on the cake....  It seems to me that you are either delusional, or a flat out moron, take your pick.

One last thing, why don't ya head out to Siler City, North Carolina, and voice your opinions on the show being communist propoganda, I dare ya.
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2004, 10:50:46 AM »
Ah ... so Andy is a Commie, Barney is gay, Aunt Bea is a bigot and Uncle Charlie is a lesbian. No ... wait ... The Skipper is an anal retentive Nazi, Gilligan is a bi-polar closet hyper-consumptionist, Mary Ann has a drug addiction and Jeanie is a pedophile. Err ... nono ... wait ....

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« Last Edit: February 08, 2004, 02:04:26 PM by Arlo »