The only Ford I'd consider buying.

[gofaster]

I just hope the mechanicals and workmanship live up to the styling.

[Ripsnort]

I've yet to see the SVT model, but it may be a "Bimmer Killer".

Something about 390 HP (Projected SVT HP version, with turbo) would force me to sell.

[Dowding]

BMW engineering or Ford engineering... now there's a choice.

[Ripsnort]

Good point Dowding.

On that note, I've had nothing but extreme reliability with Ford products, however they've only been limited to trucks and I have owned 3 (1980 F150, 1991 F150, 1997 F250)  My previous experience with Ford autos have been with cars all over 100,000 miles on them, so they required wear out items such as fuel pumps, water pumps etc.

The cost of dealership repair (Ford Dealer vs BMW) in this area is $1. ($79 an hour vs $80 an hour) and BMW parts cost an average of 20% more than standard American automobile manufacturer parts.

But, the deciding question will be whether or not the Cobra SVT will have the independant rear suspension rather than the "log" axle.  Nothing beats corning in a BMW IMO (Its what sold me on the car), maybe the SVT can be a contender...?

[BEVO]

Fastforward Fastback

Coolest mustang on the planet!

[BB Gun]

FWIW my boring 1996 Taurus GL, which had 36,000 miles on it when we bought it, now has 102,000.  The only things I've had done besides oil changes were : change brake rotors (done myself) do fix rotor warpage and shudder (50,000 miles) and just recently had the 100,000 mile tuneup and an emission repair (o2 sensor, other sensors, vairous bits and pieces for 100,000 mile tuneup) done at a cost of 600 bucks +/-.

Not bad for 66,000 miles.

The only real problem has been a crappily designed defroster that at times is utterly NOT up to the task of damp NW winters.  Which apparently has not been fixed, as a friend just bought a 2002, and it has a similar problem.

All in all, pretty happy with my experience with ford products.

BB

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
I've yet to see the SVT model, but it may be a "Bimmer Killer".

Something about 390 HP (Projected SVT HP version, with turbo) would force me to sell.

That's funny, they already have a 390 hp, S.C. 4.6L DOHC, IRS, Cobra... want to sell your bimmer cheap?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Munkii
That's funny, they already have a 390 hp, S.C. 4.6L DOHC, IRS, Cobra... want to sell your bimmer cheap?

But not with the 2005 body style. Thats yet to be announced.

BMW is the best for having the lowest depreciation , so to answer your question, no, I do not want to sell it cheap.

Mercedes loses top resale spot

BMW now best in retained value, new data show; Honda leads non-luxury brands.
November 11, 2003: 2:49 PM EST
By Chris Isidore, CNN/Money Senior Writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Mercedes Benz is losing its first place ranking as the car model retaining the greatest percentage of its value over time, according to the firm which tracks that data for the industry.

The 2004 models of the German-made luxury car brand are expected to retain 52 percent of their value after a three-year lease, according to Automotive Lease Guide, the firm whose data is used by lenders and automakers. That's down from an expected retained value of 54.5 percent a year ago. That 52 percent value retention gives Mercedes a sixth-place ranking among brands overall.

Moving into first place in the rankings is rival German automaker BMW, which is now expected to retain 54.5 percent after three years, up from 52.8 percent a year ago. Next on the list is the best ranking for a non-luxury brand, Honda, which is expected to retain 53.7 percent after three years, up from 49.7 percent a year ago.

The brand with the lowest anticipated retained value is Oldsmobile, which General Motors has already announced it plans to discontinue with this model year. The 2004 Olds are expected to retain only 31.9 percent of their value, down slightly from the 32.1 percent figure from a year earlier. Korean automaker Kia moved out of last place by having its anticipated retained value rise to 35.1 percent from 31.9 percent a year ago.

The retained value estimates try to gauge how much the vehicle will fetch at auction when it comes off a lease compared to its original sticker price. While that figure has a signficant impact on the retail price for the used vehicle, buyers are likely to find prices about 10 percent higher when shopping for a used vehicle from a dealer.

The single vehicle that has the best estimated retained value is BMW's Cooper Mini, which is expected to hold 62 percent of its value after three years. The 2004 vehicle expected to hold onto the the lowest percentage of its value is the Kia Rio, expected to be worth only 27 percent of today's price in three years.

A spokeswoman for Mercedes, a unit of DaimlerChrysler AG (DCX: Research, Estimates), said the company is not overly concerned with losing the top ranking. Donna Boland said Mercedes own estimates show somewhat better retained valued for its leased vehicles, and that its sales of used Mercedes is up 20 percent from a year ago.

"Our residuals are still among the highest in industry and business is better than it's ever been," said Boland.

ALG President Raj Sundaram said that the relative age of the Mercedes line up of 2004 models, coupled with recently declining sales numbers of older model Mercedes, is what led to the German automaker's decline in the rankings. He agreed with Boland's comment about Mercedes' relative strength.

"This residual that Mercedes has, a lot of other brands would love to have it," Sundaram said.

The strong resale data for BMW's and Hondas coming off lease, coupled with new product offerings from those automakers, helped lift those models to the top spots among luxury and non-luxury models.

Honda has been able to show strong results across a range of products, Sundaram said, having the best retained value for four classes of vehicles -- midsize sedans, minivans, compact sport/utility vehicles and crossover vehicles.

Imports dominated the top performers on the list. DaimlerChrysler's Jeep, which is expected to retain 44.2 percent of its value, and Ford, which is expected to retain 42.1 percent of its value, are the only brands from the traditional Big Three topping the industry average for its class.

Overall non-luxury brands are expected to retain 42 percent of value after three years, up slightly from 41.8 percent average a year ago, while luxury brands are expected to hold onto 49 percent of value, up from 48.7 percent a year earlier.

General Motor Corp.'s (GM: Research, Estimates) Cadillac showed almost the best improvement of any brand. It is now expected to retain 45.6 percent of its value after three years, which while trailing the luxury brand average, is up from its 40.7 percent retained value a year ago. The only brand to show better improvement was Nissan's Infiniti brand, which jumped to 51.1 percent retained value expected for its 2004 models, compared to only 45.1 percent a year ago.

Sundaram said that while the Big Three trail the imports in retained value, the success of Cadillac and Ford, the latter having a new F-150 pickup truck and a new minivan to lift its numbers this year, gives some hope for Detroit. "The domestics are about to launch a ton of new vehicles in the next couple of years," he said. "This is their opportunity to try to bridge this gap."

[Dowding]

Well, I drive a 1996 Fiat. It's crap, but has done 70,000 miles with only new tires and oil and a wiper motor and brake pads. I guess I was very lucky.

I've never been in a Ford that came close to the build quality of a BMW, but it is hard to compare like for like - they build for different markets apart from the new Mini which does compete with Ford's hatch-back models. Aston Martins contain Ford components and they have a really bad interior apparently, but are said to be improving.

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
But not with the 2005 body style. Thats yet to be announced.

BMW is the best for having the lowest depreciation , so to answer your question, no, I do not want to sell it cheap.

Actually there will be more than 390hp with the new Cobra, probably closer to 450.  The Cobra has been squarely aimed at the C6, and will not come to bat with just 390hp.

About the bimmer.. fine I didn't want it anyway, if I were going to spend that much money on a car it would be an E55 anyways.

[FUNKED1]

Live axle, dealbreaker.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Dowding
I've never been in a Ford that came close to the build quality of a BMW, but it is hard to compare like for like - they build for different markets apart from the new Mini which does compete with Ford's hatch-back models. Aston Martins contain Ford components and they have a really bad interior apparently, but are said to be improving.

Very true, however people tend to catagorized whats more important to them personally, be it build quality, reliability, style, cost, cost to operate. Thats why we drive what we drive.

That said, when I did drive ford autos, they were reasonably reliable and I drove them for the purpose of
A) its what was within my budget and
B) it was a reliable model (as researched at the time of purchase, historically speaking)

I measure an automobiles reliability by hundreds of thousands miles, ie, if you get 125,000 miles out of a car without having to rebuild the engine, or repair a timing chain, then I consider it reliable. (I might add, at 122,000 miles, is where one could begin discounting an avg. of 5 cents per mile when deciding milege depreciation)

The U.S. is a vast country, where avg., typical commutes are 40 miles +. Thats why I choose to rank "reliability" up there.

[Vermillion]

Live axle, dealbreaker.

Actually, if what I read was correct.  The GT will have the independent rear suspension (similar to the current Cobra's), while the base model (v6) will continue with the older design live axle.

And the engine output is suppose to be way up compared to the older models as well.

I will say that my 1995 Mustang GT which has about 80k on it now, has been utterly reliable and a very nice car to own.

[FUNKED1]

Hmm if they can put IRS on it without charging an arm and a leg (e.g. current Cobra) then I would definitely test drive one next time I'm shopping.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Vermillion
Actually, if what I read was correct.  The GT will have the independent rear suspension (similar to the current Cobra's), while the base model (v6) will continue with the older design live axle.

 

Not according to Car and Driver, whether thats a reliable source or not, I would question.