Author Topic: Super Spit strikes again! (Read 3268 times)

eddiek · « **on:** August 21, 2000, 11:06:00 AM »

Mission report: P47 Sweep

While trolling from A32 to A28 with a wingman, I encountered a Spit, about 2.5K higher than us.
We WEP'd and starting gaining speed to deal with this guy.
He came in behind us and we started doing Thach Weave, which did throw him off for a sec. He went for my wingman, after I split-S'd down, then here he came after me.
Nose straight down, from 15K, here we went.
Remembering earlier post and advice from fellow pilots, I let the airspeed climb to over 500, then started a gradual pullout.....leveled at 500' AGL, Spit about 780 yards back and closing....nosed down some, got to 550 IAS, rolled left with ailerons........looked back, there was the Spit, 450 back and closing.
Cut to the chase, I died.
Referring to: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004784.html
Should not the Spit's ailerons have be too stiff to follow very well?
One of P47's strengths was diving speed......does not work well in here I have found.
Talked with the pilot of the Spit, and found BIGTIME discrepancy in IAS we each saw.
Mine said 550+, his said 440-480......yet he gained on me.......curious physics in play here.
Forget the Spit XIV, you already have it...it is disguised as the Spit IX. Heard the P47 is gonna get "neutered" in the next patch.....seems the big bird is already neutered enough. Fast in level flight once you let it go, average climb, turns reasonably well within it's class, but oh man, try to do the one thing the P47 truly excelled at, and you get nowhere.
Want some input from others who are suspicious of the Spit please. Or even tips on dealing with the damn thing!

WarChild · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2000, 11:48:00 AM »

I dived straight down in my F4uc from 25k.... i mean STRAIGHT nose to the ground down. I reached 600 or so MPH was semi compressed, had to use trim and lowered my gear (promptly riping them off) to get out of the dive. U know what.. that spit followed me all the way down.. pulled up inside my turn and wasted me. he was d1.0 or under the whole dive. wish i had film...

hate spits, love to fly em now aday tho

they got no speed limit

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WarChild
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Where's the Charmin!"

mx22 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2000, 11:55:00 AM »

I suggest you go and spend more time in TA. From your posts it sounds like you need it, as they contain nothing but a whine "why I died"
Spit can't roll at speeds of around 500. Point. I used to fly it a lot to know that anyone in good rolling plane will have no problem escaping me. That leaves me think you didnt roll enough and didnt pull out of his plane of manuever fast enough. Ask any Spit pilot and he tells you the same. So stop blaming the plane and, as I mentioned above, go get some training.

mx22

mx22 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2000, 11:59:00 AM »

Warchild,

In AH gears does nto go down at speeds higher then 200

If you dive straight down withotu any rolls Spit will catch up with you. Rememeber it compresses long after many other planes do, but it gets stiff to roll (almost impossible) at high speeds so Spit driver can only pull up.

Learn your enemies

mx22

Tac · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2000, 12:34:00 PM »

When I flew the spit, any model of it, I could dive to speeds to which a P-38 would be breaking up and groaning and that Spitfire could still roll AND pull up quite easily.

And MX22, on a dive you dont need to roll to aim, just rudder a bit and play with elevator trim... methinks rudder and trim work way too good at compression speeds as well.

Exile · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2000, 01:00:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mx22:
Warchild,

In AH gears does nto go down at speeds higher then 200 If you dive straight down withotu any rolls Spit will catch up with you. Rememeber it compresses long after many other planes do, but it gets stiff to roll (almost impossible) at high speeds so Spit driver can only pull up.

Learn your enemies

mx22

Weren't the landing gear on the F4Us designed to be used as diving brakes? Or at least made strong enough to help slow the plane at high speeds. I know I've heard this somewhere else. I may be wrong.

[This message has been edited by Exile (edited 08-21-2000).]

JoeMud · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2000, 01:07:00 PM »

The spit is just a pain in the bellybutton for anyone who isnt flying one. period

Although if they come from high 6 with speed then just break into a hard turn and they rip there wings off almost every time.

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"..he shoots fire out of his eyes and lightning bolts out of his arse..."

mx22 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2000, 01:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Exile:
Weren't the landing gear on the F4Us designed to be used as diving brakes? Or at least made strong enough to help slow the plane at high speeds. I know I've heard this somewhere else. I may be wrong.

I don't know if they were designed for that or no, but it is a fact that you can't lower gear at speeds higher then 200. If you didn't pull them up before 200, they will brake.

mx22

Hamish · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2000, 01:37:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mx22:
I don't know if they were designed for that or no, but it is a fact that you can't lower gear at speeds higher then 200. If you didn't pull them up before 200, they will brake.

mx22

It takes 300+ mph to damage F4U landing gear.

EDIT: just did an offline test, and in the F4U-1C, i extended the landing gear at 220 IAS(240TAS) and dove with no gear damage until 400 IAS (420 TAS) where Gear sheared off. I am almost positive this was historicaly accurate.

Hamish!

[This message has been edited by Hamish (edited 08-21-2000).]

Apache · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2000, 01:45:00 PM »

lol mx22. I suggestion you heed your own advice. You can dirty down a Corsair well above 200.

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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site

easymo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2000, 02:09:00 PM »

AH doesnt have easymode. The Spit serves this propose. When newbi,s ask. I always stick them in this plane. Most immediately improve.

To the whines above, I would add magical guns. the 2 20,s are as good as the 4 on a 1c. And the two 50,s as good as the 6 on a pony.

Even so, I think they should leave them alone. They are the price we need to pay, to get new ppl in the game.

Fluf · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2000, 02:12:00 PM »

I fly the spit, the p51, and the p47s. The biggest pain for me to fight in a spit is the p47. I suspect that you are being caught in your dives by a spit pilot who is "cutting the corner" on your dive by diving at a shallower angle than you and aimimg at the area you will have to cross after pulling out of the dive. This way he can dive at a lower speed and still catch you. I try to do this in any plane when chasing in a dive. It is too easy though for the p47 driver to roll away from me in the dive.

I can attest to the fact that in several high alt dogfights with clever p47 drivers, they just pulled the plug when things turned against them and dove away, leaving me standing with my jaw hanging down. There is no way that a spit9 can dive with a 47 given an even start from a slowish turning fight.

When fighting againt 47s low I can not roll with them at all - at any speed. I think that as you gain confidence and experience in your 47 you will start to win more of these encounters.

And let's not forget Chuck Yeager's famous saying, "You fight the man, not the machine". Some people can just do incredible things in any plane - I've lost fights with a few p47 pilots that were just unbelievably good. I don't blame the modeling of the p47s they were flying, I blame their great talent.

I do find it odd that the p47 performs so much better than the f4u-d1 with the same engine (I think?). But I trust HT's flight models.

The p47s are just awesome planes, and I get my best kill streaks flying them. I try never to underestimate them when I fight against them - you just never know who you are up against...
Fluf

Karnak · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2000, 02:48:00 PM »

Odd, if Spits are so easy, why did this newbie, Spitfire fan (me) have to switch to 109s to improve my performance?

An example of Spit vs. 109 performance:
On Sunday I flew a single mission before my network crased and denied me Internet access. I took a Spit IX up for a spin, bounce a F4U-1C and made a mistake so he got away. If I'd been flying my usual Bf190G-10 that F4U would've never gotten away, mistake or no. Could I have gotten him in the Spitfire? Yes. The 109 just gives me more room to make mistakes and come out on top. The more room an aircraft gives to make mistakes and still survive or win, the better that aircraft is for newbies. As far as I can tell, the best newbie aircraft is the Bf109G-10.

Bf109G-10 = Easy Mode

You LW fans/anti-Spit folks have way too high an opinion of yourselves. The "I fly a 109, so I'm taking a handicap. That my K/D ratio is this good just means I'm one of the best" attitude is a bunch of bull-honky. You take one of the best fighters in the game and then go on and on about how great you are for taking such a piece of crap up against those horribly overmodeled P-51s and Spitfires.

How come the Spitfire is so overmodeled in every sim that was ever made? 190s and 109s should be able to swat them out of the sky without any difficulty at all, yet they keep making it so its about an even fight. Why?

Sisu
-Karnak

mx22 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2000, 03:05:00 PM »

You can't extend gear at speeds higher then 200 (well 220 as someone above mentioned). If you look at original Warchild post, he said he drops gear to slow him down from dive that means he either somehow drops them at much higher speed or he starts diving with them. Or maybe I simply completely don't understand what he's talking about.

mx22

Swager · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2000, 03:14:00 PM »

Poppy-cock!! I get shot down in the Spit IX as easily as the ME109 G-10.

I've seen a Super Spit pass me on my left, bounce in mid-air and latch on to my six, I seen a Super cannon Hog outclimb my G-10 from level flight, I have seen Out of This World P-47's creep up on my 500 MPH G-10 and kill me from D1.2

As SIM pilots we will always see things like this, even when we know deep down inside that they are unrealistic. Everyone will protect their plane of choice. Just a nature of the game!

My Motto: Just have fun!!!!