Author Topic: Bomber Formations.. Partly automated (Read 1744 times)

fd ski · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2000, 10:45:00 AM »

Relax folks.

idea has been around for quite a while and it is quite good.

I do hope one day someone will implement it ....

As for "I wanna be killed by a human" thing - do realize that all gunners are controled by same guy.

Everyone wants weaker fire from the buffs, less accurate bomb sight but i'd like to see the same people who complain about it fly buffs sometimes.

As is all sims are nothing more then WWII everquest. We have 1000's of fighters and few bombers in the air.
In RL there was far more bombers in most airforces then fighters.
As is, it will never be an inviting suggestion to fly a buff by yourself which can be killed by first cannon dweeb that comes around and you have 5% chance of hitting somethere and even if you do - it doesn't make that much difference.
Get a squadron thing doesn't cut it... i'd love to see any of you guys with 50+ people squadrons do a combined mission.... sheees...

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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

MiG Eater · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2000, 02:30:00 PM »

The idea of AI controlled airplanes is not appealing in AH. However, I only see a couple of ways that this would work. Scenerio one where a group commander controls a formation of bombers much in the way that the future task force will be controlled - by the highest scoring individual. Since this is a human vs human sim, I would think it necessary to man every bomber in the formation. There is no real satisfaction in shooting at or shooting down drones. We can all do that offline. If wingmen are AI controlled then shooting down the lead airplane should result in the the destruction of the entire formation. Other than creating huge masses of frame-rate draining bomber fleets, it seems pointless to me since all bombers already capable of amazing accuracy. This in itself renders the idea of large formation carpet bombing as overkill.

MiG

Duckwing6 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2000, 02:46:00 PM »

I have to say the same that a few folks aobove already said ..

NO AI IN AH !

That's what makes On-line gaming so great, you know that someone else is piloting or driving or gunning .. not some programm routine.

AI for ACK is about as far as i'd go ..

DW6

Graywolf · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2000, 03:09:00 PM »

Auto formation? No thanks. No to any sort of AI too.

The things that made bombing fun for me in Warbirds were trying to fly nice tight formations on the way to the target and the banter on the 'radio'.

If you want people to get close and hit some sort of 'auto formate' function then what the hell is the point. A lot of bmber missions are an hour of boredom and 5 minutes of mayhem over the target (although not all of them, going lowe level to push deep behind enemy lines is fun, but rarely seen in Aces High). Take away the need to fly in close formation (which to be honest the Aces High gunner system tend to make pointless nayway, the covering fire from friendly bombers just doesn't happen correctly) and I may as well watch the telly.

Having said that I'm mostly flying fighters in Aces High, because there are currenly too many issues with the bombers and not enough dedicated pilots to make it interesting. So take what I say with a pinch of salt

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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>

Gadfly · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2000, 06:00:00 PM »

Guess ya'll forgot about the AI manned ack that kills us so often.

Lizking

juzz · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2000, 06:18:00 PM »

How do I know that you lot aren't all robots! I never seen any of ya!

Pepino · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2000, 03:45:00 AM »

I like the AutoPilot for Buff formations idea, but:

Buff formation would work like the .wingman command or .join command way.
Auto Formation only allow coordinated flight. No bomber auto formation, no auto gunner, No AI, no Otto.
All buffs in formation have to be manned. Pilots would jump to bomber/gunner position.
Killshooter on for buffs in formation. Watchout who you shoot
No pinpoint 30k bombing for auto formation buffs.
Auto disband formation when Flight Leader turns too hard.

Just my €0.02.

Pepino

StSanta · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2000, 05:53:00 AM »

I want AutoFire on my guns.

That is, when the computer sees a valid firing solution, it fires the guns.

Just like in the MiG-29.

We need this is Aces High. Because we don't want to focus on developing the same skills as WWII pilots had, we wanna game.

.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
If I am understanding this correctly, he died while campaigning. Then afterwards, he won the election.

Voting for a dead guy.

This one goes to the book of "Stupid Laws Around The World".

That's beyond stupid. It's...BISHROOK!

Here, if ya die, yer outta politics. Yer party finds a replacement. And it ain't gonna be your wife, unless she's the best candidate.

Pretty easy solution. Sort of like "if you're dead, you ain't got a place as a forward in Barcelona. And if you held the place and died, your wife ain't getting it."

Hey, can I vote for Elvis?

.

--
StSanta
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

Westy · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2000, 08:06:00 AM »

Wrong Lizking. Go back and read my post and a few others again.
And if you have a real point to make, then please do so instead of making a lame attempt to stir the pot.

In "Ack Ack Gunners Online" if the focus was to have human control of the anti-aircraft guns and aa vehicles then I could see the the need for AI operated aircraft. This is a WWII aircombat flight sim, not "Ack-Ack Gunners Online" nor a FPS game like Rogue Spear.

-Westy

Midnight · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2000, 08:25:00 AM »

I think that the point I wanted to make was that auto-formation flight, at least for the buffs, would make formation flight and coordinated buffing a lot easier.

I understand that keeping in formation is part of being able to fly, but if you are a lone player, then you have to concentrate on maintaining formation, and not looking for bandits.

The "Bomber box" formation worked because the close proxcimity of the bombers in it allowed for 4 times the amount of guns to be pointed at any one plane at any one time. If the pilot if forced to stay in the cockpit so that he can stay in the bomber-box formation, the whole advantage of the formation is nullified because then there is no gunner looking and shooting.

If the pilot jumps to the gunner positions, the plane can fall out of formation, and then you have no bomber box.

It's catch 22, for the buffs--- Stay in formation and can't gun, or gun and fall out of formation--- screwed either way.

------------------
"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight

Midnight · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2000, 08:35:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy:
Midnight, tank engines are extremely loud not only when under the strain of moving but alos at idle. I'm not sure you'd ever hear any aircraft unless it was a Stuka and he was coming down verticly on you and you could hear it's siren..

Oxford huh? Btw, I'm typing this from Charlton.

-Westy

I spent several summers on my father's lobster boat out of Cohasset. This boat had a big diesel with a straight exhaust, no mufflers. At full throttle, you could hear nothing but the engine. However, at idle you could hear prop driven A/C, up to a few miles away, very well.

There was even one occasion when I did hear a radial engine bi-plane passing over when we were cruising at max RPM, and beleve me, a straight exhaust Ford marine diesel is LOUD!

Westy---- maybe we will run into each other sometime <SALUTE>

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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight

Pepino · « **Reply #26 on:** November 10, 2000, 09:22:00 AM »

Quote

If the pilot jumps to the gunner positions, the plane can fall out of formation, and then you have no bomber box.

No, since the box is attached via the hypothetical .autoformation command.

Cheers,

Pepino.

Westy · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2000, 01:38:00 PM »

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for the inclusion of external and internal sounds. Eye candy and sounds are the two most direct sensations we get from playing on the PC. Both need to be as rich as possible for the "immersion" to take effect for us. I've just been next to a few tanks and you can't hear a damn thing when they're idling, let alone running.

-Westy

(grew up on the South Shore - So. Weymouth btw. Hingham Harbour, etc etc <G> )

Gadfly · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2000, 01:52:00 PM »

The point, Westy, is it is common to decry AI gunners, re Otto, but we all accept AI AA gunners without a batting our eyes. I do not see the difference between the two.

Westy · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2000, 02:42:00 PM »

Point of view difference is what is boils down to. I see the ack-ack as a side dish for those who like to capture or defend territory. Something myself and others are not always into. Where as with gunners on an airplane I beleive it is different because airplanes are the core ingredient here and I want no artificial sweeteners in mine. I want mano-e-mano aircombat and if a bomber guy wants to take a bomber up then let him defend it by jumping to the guns.
I am basing my prejudice against Otto as I've not seen any otto work very well, including WB's. If one came along that could mimick a human gunner pretty well I'd be for it. But not AI piloted COMBAT aircraft. AW used AI controlled C47's for supply in their strat model. That's fine with me. Just not combat aircraft imo.

-Westy