My baby is sick or is it me?

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Ok, all I asked is if it's normal that the P47 top speed wep on at 15K should be slightly below from the one of the Spit IX?

Notice I never talked about turn or climb  or acceleration ability. (I don't expect to turn as well as a spit, I don't expect to outclimb a 109, I don't expect to out-accelerate a Niki...) I'm ready to take the P47 as it is in turn acceleration and climb.

I was just surprised that it was so slow in level flight. Basically I can't even try to dogfight a bit because as soon as I disengage, even if I can escape 1.5-2K away, the Spit is catching back with me in level flight. (And if the spit catches back with me, no need to mention any other AH aircraft).

But if Vermillon says it's ok, then I trust him as I just read pilot reports about the P47, never had perfs about it.

Towd, ur revenge has finally come! I will stick to my ahsmatic P47   maybe I will still find a way to trick you with the fat slow one (tell me about a chalenge).



[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 09-30-2000).]

[funked]

Frenchy the performance charts on the www.hitechcreations.com  web page look reasonable to me.  The problem is that there seems to be some discrepancy between the charts and the performance we are seeing.  Pyro has acknowledged the problem, so I think we will see a fix soon.

[Fatty]

I still haven't noticed any degredation in P47's performance, and I'll still take it hands down over F4U for everything (ground targets included) except ostwinds.

[-ammo-]

Frenchy I gotta say that I am inclined to believe that either the P-47 was toned down a bit, or several other AC got a shot in the arm. Used to be I could boom and zoom with it till either another high copn arrived or I made a mistake. The P-47 should convert its speed to the most altiutde out of the entire planeset. It was known for its zoom. Robert Johnson said in his book he could walk a way from a spit in a zoom ( not a climb) and he also stated its roll rate was outstanding ( not so in any sim Ive seen). Now when it firsty showed its face in 1.03 it was a true beast to be contended with. But not anymore. I dont feel as confident in it and I am very happy when a good number of my squad is around for the mutual protection.

ammo

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Dear Vermillon

Ok all I got to compare or should I say to guess is this book that I just bought : "Fighting Aircraft of WW2", Editor Karen Levenrington.

They say: P47-D25       2,300 HP
          Spit MK IX    1,660 HP
          F4U-1 (not D) 2,000 HP

I know that HP is not everything, but I would had expected at 15K the P47 being at least a bit faster than the Spit IX at top level speed.

For the tests I did in AH, not that it means anything but full wep, 15K and 50% fuel (I believe 50% fuel have different weight depending on aircraft) :

P47-D30  310 KIAS, 380 KTAS
Spit9    310 KIAS, 390 KTAS (?... go figure this red line).

Once again, would anyone have some numbers about top speed at 15K Spit/P47 please?

I read a couple of pilot reports about how P47 handles, well...   not much I can learn about some say it's a rock, some say it can outturn any LW plane, some say in the middle blahblahblah  

See you soon in my P47, even if it's a juicy target now, I will make u sweat for the kill  

[Citabria]

p47D30 should do 394mph  TAS according to HTC performance chart with wep at 15k

[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 09-30-2000).]

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

I still think it boils down to the fact that the P47s were excellent high altitude planes due to their ability to maintain lots of power at great heigths. They were not so stellar at lower to medium levels like around 15K. There the other planes such as Spit IX or 190/109 did not loose so much power due to high alts. Ive read accounts from both the German JG26 and American B17 crews that consistently support this. JG26 pilots often reffered to 47s as "non-intervenors" as they would merrily cruise along at 30K, making few attempts at fighting or coming lower. B17 crews were often pissed at 47  pilots who did just the same, while they were being shredded by LW fiters, apparently P38s were more eager to mix it up though. Most of the great big 47 perfomnance numbers start around 25k which is much higher than most fights occur in the MA sice version 1.04. There were reasons for them to stay so high in RL, maybe they are correctly modeled in AH?

thanks GRUNHERZ

[Vermillion]

Frenchy, I haven't done any testing on the plane in the game.

But my "America's Hundred Thousand" (the best book on American Fighters) shows that the P47D25 should do between 390-400mph TAS at 15k.  This is very similar to the performance shown on the AH help pages.

What you should do is test the plane in the game.  Load it up with 100% fuel, but no external ordinance. Climb to 15k, and then turn on WEP, and wait until the speed stabilizes (usually 3-5 minutes).

If its between 390-400 TAS, it is in the right ball park.

Note to Santa and Fishu: See guys, Its not just Luftwaffe aircraft I pick on  

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[StSanta]

Heheheh Verm <S!>  

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Dear Vermillon,

I followed your advise and did some test to compare numbers between the books I found at the library, HTC charts and flight test at 100% fuel.

I found something that maybe be abnormal. While doing a 5000 feet level test I had a TAS of 345 MPH. When I kicked the Wep on till Wep exausted I gained 5 MPH only (350 TAS). I don't know if it's normal but I noticed that the F4 is gaining more than 20 MPH when the Wep is on at 5,000 feet.

Maybe my feeling about the P47 being "ashmatic" comes from the fact that using the Wep doesn't change the performances as significantly as other airplanes. I'de like to have your point of view on this, is it something normal for the P47-D30 or could it be a sneacky HTC code error?

As far as the tests comparing the data I found at the library (jane's whatever WW2 planes and Military Aircrafts), HTC P47-D30 speed charts and my flight tests, here is what I got:  

Test at 30,000 feet:

  book       428 MPH
  HTC Chart  418 (Wep off) -- 430 (Wep on)
  flight     405 (Wep off) -- 418 (Wep on)

Test at 5,000 feet:

  book       363 MPH
  HTC Chart  346 (Wep Off) -- 360 (Wep on)
  flight     345 (Wep off) -- 350 (Wep on)

Looks like that at 30K the P47D-30 is slower than HTC chart and the chart matches my book data "Wep on".

At 5K, HTC chart is matching my book data when "Wep on", but the test flight again is about 10 MPH short with "Wep on".

Vermillon, HTC and AH comunauty, I would be more than happy to share any data and comments  

(I did tests in flight comparing speeds I got from those books for Spit9 at 20K, 30K and they matched great, nothing to say there). Starting to put my nose in 'theroritical numbers', I'm impressed with HTC good job... soooooo big salute, I've no idea how they do it, but they do it  

Be safe all, help my Radial Baby  

Frenchy.