My baby is sick or is it me?

[SFRT - Frenchy]

After some weeks off, I came back on AH and in my baby, the P47. I was surprised, I have the feeling that something is wrong with my love. Not the new E retention thing but more that the FM has been tone down.

I know some of you hated the P47 telling he was overmodeled in turns, but now I have the feeling everything is tone down except the amo.

The other day I could only see a Spit run away from me at 15K level   .. same for a F4U-C. I took a spit to 15K, TAS is slightly faster than P47, same for a F4U with a single drop tank. I don't know if this is "right" but I'm surprised by that, even the Typhoon handles 'better' than the current P47.

I saw nothing into HTC readme on the patches. I'd like to share my opinion with other dedicated P47 drivers, did you noticed a change?

I may look like whining, but you guys have to understand that the P47 is my fav WW2 plane and I fly this one exclusively. I'm a bit saddened and intriged by his new performances, I'm just wondering if it's "right". If it is, all that is left for me is to grab to 25K, make 2 passes and run away... oh... that's true... "any other" fighter is faster than me now   (actually I'm not smiling)

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Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
     

SFRT Aces High web page http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm

SFRT pages http://www.sfrt.net

[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 09-29-2000).]

[-towd_]

howdy french im back after close to a week my self total sytem melt down  but back ane better than beore . look forward to seeing you in that big wallowing target   and i am smiling

[Citabria]

frenchy nothing changed on the P-47 from 1.03 to 1.04...

this may be the problem  

however I have tested the Jugs top speed with wep on and off and climb performance and it seems to be a bit slow at most altitudes by maybe 4-5 mph compared to the AH chart.
however climb performance is exactly as the chart shows

since now everything dives and zooms as good as the jug the jugs two redeeming features... dive and zoom performance is of no use.

and if you turn the jug at all for a shot on a maneuvering target you loose all your e

it cant out zoom anything below 15k with co e, f4u, p51, n1k2 all dive as well or better than the p47

basically if you want to fly this plane and live you have to grab to 25k+ where the jug still rules the sky but if a p51 comes along above you better be ready to do some of that "pilot toejam" or your toast as he can easily out turn out dive and out climb and out run ya.

but at 30k the  jug still kicks ass
however no one flies at 30k because there is no LW determined to strike at buff boxes and no need for p47s with awsome high altitude performance to defend them. just a bunch of scrambled bandits that will dive away when in danger.

the P-47 still kicks bellybutton if you have and you keep an altitude advantage.

but you need chaos and oportunity to score kills against unweary bad guys since its so easy to maneuver out of the way now.

[AKDejaVu]

Normally I call BS on most of the "my plane is porked" arguments.  But I have to say that the P-47's are significantly easier to kill.

I had one come in on me with e.. He dove below me and I split s as he pulled up inside of the maneuver and started to climb.  I came around and followed him up and was suprised as I gained on him.  It may have been that he kept too much elevator in the maneuver.. but I was suprised anyways.

He dove away and I stayed about 3k above him.  As he leveled I began to dive and found myself gaining on him.  In an F4u-1c.  It had never happened to me before.

He then began scissoring, a move I used to find difficult to deal with from a p-47.  I found it easy to counter as I was able to climb up over him with ease.  I was then able to dive in on him as he stalled in another turn and scored the win.

I can accept a couple of mistakes by a pilot.. but this plane really seemed to be an entirely different handling craft.

Just an observation.

AKDejaVu

[Westy]

 I know I don't get kills flying that plane anymore.  I figured I lost my touch - or what little I had.
 
  -Westy

[Creamo]

I loved that plane, it's parked now. Right next to the once awesome 205.

The FM has changed so much in 6 months on 1 plane, or 4, or whatever, I just fly the "riki niki likity kill everything but a spitty." Saves all the grief and confusion.

Fatty can't even remember to turn tracers back on for the OSTI runs, I don't know how you all keep up with these FM's.

[StSanta]

Note to Frenchy; this isnot directed at you, but a chance to get back at the allierte schweinhunden.

WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE

Booo-buttern'-hoooo

"My plane is porked." WAAAAH

Well, that has been the response to just about every question I've asked about LW fm's  .

Heheheh, MAN, that felt good  

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"

[GRUNHERZ]

Hi

I dont know if the numbers are right but P47 pilots in RL tended to stay high as they knew they could be outperformed by German fighters at lower to medium alts. This isnt meant as some sort of slap to the alleid pilots or planes but thats how it was in WW2.
That said 47 kicked bellybutton in ground attack.

thanks GRUNHERZ

[jihad]

 It doesn`t feel right to me either.
 
 Citabria said:
 "frenchy nothing changed on the P-47 from 1.03 to 1.04..."

 Possibly,but the jugs E retention *feels* worse to me in 1.04.  

[Mark Luper]

I fly the 47 most of the time too. I havn't really noticed it being less than it was as much as the other planes being more than they were. It may be a bit slower but in b&z it feels pretty much the same to me.

I don't get many kills to begin with, not that good a pilot, but my K/D ratio doesn't feel any different. I don't keep up with my scores so don't really have that to tell me much.

I fly it in such a manner as to engage targets when I have a hugh advantage. Not much sense getting down in the mud with it, most everything out-turns it.



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MarkAT

"It is not the critic who counts,
it is the man in the arena..."
Teddy Roosevelt

[Westy]

"..most everything out-turns it."  For me that was always true. What I would do is roll that tub (looks to the sky, "Thanks for that tip Johnson!"   ) into an enemy bogy. Doesn't seem to roll like it used to. Or, as has been offered, maybe the FM changes have made other aircraft more nimble and the roll isn't such an advantage anymore.

 Not a whine StSanta. My posts are plain observation and adding to the discussion. I'm more certain it's me, than the FM. Nail me down as for having blind trust in Pyro's work.  If I really wanted to sound like one of the LW "contingent" I'd preface the whine with "this blatant anti-USAAF bias" and add in a sprinkling of "it's part of a damn LW conspiracy" here and there.  

  -Westy

[eddiek]

Have to agree with you Frenchy.....something is definitely awry with the P47.
I have read article after article of interviews with actual Jug pilots, and the one common theme was that the Jug would outrun and outturn the 109G-series and the FW190A-series.
From an article in the March 2000 edition of the magazine WORLD WAR II:
"By the end of 1943, the P-47D had ironed out most of the Thunderbolt's deficiences and was proving it's worth over New Guinea as well as Europe.  Not only could it overtake both the FW-190A and Me-109G in level flight, it could outmaneuver them both at altitudes above 15,000 feet.  And if worst came to worst, neither German fighter had a chance of catching a Thunderbolt if its pilot resorted to diving away."  (Try outdiving a 190A5 and watch him gain on you in the dive......makes ya wonder, huh?  It ain't gonna happen in 1.04...the Jug's ability to dive away from danger is no longer there)
Since the 1.04 version hit, I have found it a lot harder to get kills in the Jug.  I know I am far from the best pilot, even in the Jug.  
But I went holding my own in a fight in the Jug to currently hoping no B17 came along and got on my 6......the plane feels that sluggish.  
Frenchy, you and I had some awesome P47 v P47 fights before 1.04    ......the Jug could hold it's own against any other plane in the arena.  Fights like those are a thing of the past with the current FM, as somehow the Jug is an underdog against almost anything but maybe the JU88.

[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 09-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 09-30-2000).]

[StSanta]

Heheheh Westy, now you know how *I* feel.

I am guilty by association. Because I am a luftwabble, I must very precisely express what I feel is wrong, and even then, people build up strawmen and push them over.

Sure is a lot less P-47's around. Or A5's. We don't see many G10's either.

I've condeded that maybe the A5 ws closer to the numbers than the rest, and therefore it got a relatively minor "boost" with 1.04. The same might be true about the P-47.

But, as Verm has told me many times, give me NUMBERS.  



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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Westy]

"But, as Verm has told me many times, give me NUMBERS."

 Can't. That's why I'll never point the finger and say something is wrong or incorrect. I'll just say the planes doesn't feel like it used to.  

-Westy

[Vermillion]

Ok, I will be the first nay sayer.

In 1.03 both the A5 and the P47 seemed to suffer the same problem, they both retained E relatively too well compared to the rest of the planeset, in line with their physical characteristics and historical record.

I even flew the P47 for a week or two, and I admitt that the thing was TOO good in E retention.

In 1.04 the A5 was on the list of bug fixs. So was the P47 fixe too? *shrugs* I don't know. But it sounds like it.

Guys, the P47 should be at its best at either high altitude, due to its turbosupercharger, just like the P-38. Or on ground attack sorties due to its big payload and extreme robustness.

The only time it should be a good dogfighter at low to medium altitudes, is if you engage with an advantage, and then hit and run.

Its not fast, its very large and heavy, and accelerates slowly. Basically it dives well, and its got alot of guns, plus its very tough.

Now, I haven't done any kind of controlled testing, so I can't say one way or the other if its correct or not. But it sounds to me like the P-47 is finally fitting into the planeset the way it should.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure