Spit vs Zeke performanse

[Xjazz]

Terve!

Last evening I have one fight against Uri. I Fly Spit IX and Uri fly Zeke.

Uri start higher alt and try head shot in merge while I make lead turn about d300-500.  There we turning and looping.

I suffer from start low E so I make extend move and gently dive WEP on.

I was supprised because Zeke comes closer and closer. Litlebit later Uri nail me.

Could Zeke really outrun Spit IX?

Xjazz

[juzz]

Sounds like he had more energy.

Since A6M5b is slower than Spit IX, and can only accelerate faster at speeds below about 120mph IAS.

[Tuomio]

Zero is very deadly against spits if spit pilot decides to turn with it. When Spit pilot realizes, that hes running out of E its usually too late if zero pilot is at least average gunner. When spit breaks off from turn hes very low at E and it takes few seconds to catch outrunning speed. I make most of kills Zero vs Spits like that.

[Kieren]

The Zero can very easily outturn the Spitfire IX, and the Spit V for that matter.

Once you got into a fight with a higher Zero you should have made every effort to get the hell out of there. He had most of the cards.

Your best bet (if you have alt) is to start a spiral dive. The low velocity cannon will make it hard to get a good burst in you, and all the while you are building speed. As the speed builds, the Zero will have a harder time rolling with you. Break out of the spiral hard enough to gray out, and level out when you have extended to 750 or so. By the time he rolls wings level and tries to get a shot, you will be too far for him to get a killing shot.

Oooops, reread the "outrun" line. Still it changes little of what I said. The Zero over your head is really bad news... and yes, the intitial acceleration of the Zero could be more than enough to give him a shot. The spiral dive is about the only way to deny the shot and give you a good chance to escape.

[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 11-09-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:
The Zero can very easily outturn the Spitfire IX, and the Spit V for that matter.

Once you got into a fight with a higher Zero you should have made every effort to get the hell out of there. He had most of the cards.

Your best bet (if you have alt) is to start a spiral dive. The low velocity cannon will make it hard to get a good burst in you, and all the while you are building speed. As the speed builds, the Zero will have a harder time rolling with you. Break out of the spiral hard enough to gray out, and level out when you have extended to 750 or so. By the time he rolls wings level and tries to get a shot, you will be too far for him to get a killing shot.

But zeke 5 has same cannons as in george.
those should be high velocity cannons, not those lousy ones from earlier zekes..

[Kieren]

Good point!

Still, the spiral dive will hopefully keep you ahead of his guns long enough to separate. Anything else you try will likely get you killed really quick.

[Fishu]

When I fight on zekes, I prefer vertical combat after they've got too low E to follow.
those zekes can keep nose up pretty well, but they sure ain't doing it fast enough to catch you when you're going up in some another fighter.
You could literally just do that for a day and just snap shoot him.. if he evades, be reasonable and pull up if you see theres too small chance to hit anymore.
Sooner or later you'll get the snap shot in and zeke *shouldnt* be tough. (well, my 190A8 did disagree on that last time when I had good hits on zeke couple times in a row)

[Fariz]

Dive, accelerate, go away. Just maneuve not to give him solution and get distance. Then, when you have distance and patience, zeke is dead, even if he is skilled. Spit can outclimb zeke, and outrun it. With this 2 things who cares about turns?

[Lephturn]

Simply DO NOT slow down.  Do not go below 250 Mph and the Spit should not only have a good chance by using the vertical, but can also escape if he gets the separation to do so.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com


"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
 - Steve Earl

[funked]

Spit 9s are much faster than Zekes - at least 25 mph faster at any altitude.  

Climb rate and acceleration are pretty close at low speeds and low altitude, but the faster you go, the bigger the advantage for the Spit 9.

Also keep in mind that Aces High models the best-performing version of the Zeke and the worst-performing version of the Spit 9.  So if you compare book data for a Spitfire LF Mk. IX and an A6M2, you'll get a much different impression of their relative performance than you will get in the game.

[juzz]

What if I compare a Seafire LIIC to an A6M5?

The peak speeds of the two aircraft are:-
Seafire LIIC - 338mph at 5,500ft
Zeke 52 - 335mph at 18,000ft
The comparitive speeds in miles per hour are:
Height Seafire LIIC Zeke 52
Sea Level 316 292
5,000ft 337 313
10,000ft 337 319
15,000ft 335 327
20,000ft 328 333
25,000ft 317 327
30,000ft -- 317

Climb the Zeke 52 climbs at a very steep angle and gives the impression of a very high rate of climb. The Seafire LIIC, however, has a much better initial climb and remains slightly superior up to 25,000ft.
 The climb of the Seafire is at a higher speed, but at a more shallow angle.
 The best indicated climbing speeds of the Zeke and the Spitfire are 120mph and 160mph respectively.

Manoeuverability Turning plane - the Zeke 52 can turn inside the Seafire LIIC at all heights. The Zeke 52 turns tighter to the left than to the right.
 Rolling plane - the rate of roll of the two aircraft is similar at speeds below 180mph IAS, but above that the aileron stick forces of the Zeke increase tremendously, and the Seafire becomes progressively superior.
Dive The Seafire is superior in the dive although initial acceleration is similar. The Zeke as a most unpleasant aircraft in a dive, due to heavy stick forces and excessive vibration.

Tactics: Never dogfight with the Zeke 52 - it is too manoeuverable.
 At low altitudes where the Seafire is at its best, it should make use of its superior rate of climb and speed to obtain a height advantage before attacking.
 If jumped, the Seafire should evade using superior rate of roll. The Zeke cannot follow high speed rolls and aileron turns.

Conclusions The Seafire LIIC is 24mph faster at sea level, this difference decreasing to parity between 15,000 and 20,000ft. The Zeke 52 is 10mph faster at 25,000ft.
 The Seafire can out-climb the Zeke up to 25,000ft.
 The Zeke is very manoeuverable and can turn inside the Seafire at all altitudes.
 The Zeke fights best between 115 and 180mph IAS.
 The rate of roll of the Seafire is better than that of the Zeke above 180mph IAS.

From a USN test at Patuxent River, Maryland in October 1944.

[F4UDOA]

Juzz,

Great stuff. Where did you get it?

Thanx
F4UDOA

[juzz]

Copied straight from SPITFIRE by Alfred Price. It would also be in Spitfire at War by the same author.

[funked]

Great stuff Juzz.  Of course the biggest difference between the two planes was that the Zeke had about twice the range!

[Xjazz]

Thanks to everybody. Nice to get good feelback from experienced pilots.

Fishu & Tuomio:
Lisää treeniä ja MA:lla tavataan ;-)