Bad ol Bush

[NUKE]

Originally posted by 10Bears
Okay I have a question,

This is pointed at Mr. Black but anyone can answer.
Why is it conventional wisdom  that Saddam needed to be removed from power?

Reason I ask is who is going to hold back the religious fundamentalists now? Wouldn’t a better solution had been to lift sanctions and resume the business of doing business thereby strengthening business partnerships making it un-desirous for Saddam to attack?. This has been our policy with communist China for more than 10 years now and seems to me to be a win-win situation for both our countries.

Gosh! that sounds so Republican of me. Why are you guys not acting like Republicans?

Typical Liberal, no clue at all about anything.

[Yeager]

Wouldn’t a better solution had been to lift sanctions and resume the business of doing business thereby strengthening business partnerships making it un-desirous for Saddam to attack?.
====
I dont know much 10bears but what I think the problem was with hussein is that he was hording all the wealth of that nation and the average little guy in iraq wasnt getting anything.

just a thought.....

[Kieran]

Originally posted by Fishu
Thats the very problem of yours, you stick to assumptions.
Since that is utter BS what you claim.
Try to make difference between politics and other issues, you mostly just read what I say about the politics.

I don't agree with certain US policies, neither does a good bunch of americans...  what would make me so much different, except for being foreigner and easier to frame me up as anti-american.
(makes me wonder what the disagreeing part of americans are.. unpatriotic? oh the democracy!)

Be welcome to critisize finnish politics, I won't even make a hint you'd be anti-finnish if you just bash the politics.
..like some from US has done here, which is silly, especially when defending the freedom, democracy... et al.


Unfortunately most political discussions here are about the one and same thing - how to deal with the terrorist - so it isn't big of a surprise if the tone is same kind.
...and always someone is putting up same kind of crap against the others.


Don't forget Hortlund, LOL

Really?

Name a single foreign policy the US has you agree with.

Tell me something positive about the American school system.

Tell me something positive American domestic policy.

In other words, tell me something positive about America in general, because honestly I cannot remember a single time you had anything positive to say about anything substantive to do with America. Mostly you just make smartass comments and innuendo.

I'm being direct with you, because quite honestly you've earned a little bluntness.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by 10Bears
Okay I have a question,

This is pointed at Mr. Black but anyone can answer.
Why is it conventional wisdom  that Saddam needed to be removed from power?

[/b]
Mad dictator
Supporting terrorism
WMD's (or if you believe the "Saddam-had-no WMD's"-bull****, WMD-ambitions)
Genocide against own population
Destabilizing the entire region

Reason I ask is who is going to hold back the religious fundamentalists now?

[/b]
Remember the axis of evil? Iran should be next on that list.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Fishu
If I could put up the numbers, I would be probably hired by the US Gov., since terrorist obviously doesn't keep a list of their numbers like the most western countries do.

[/b]

So in other words you dont really know what the hell you are talking about when you say their numbers are increasing?

It's been on the news for months now, obviously you dont follow the news.
Even simple logic would tell you that.

[/b]
Then you should have no problem whatsoever to provide a couple of links that can back up your statement....or?

However your logic seems to be missing at times..

Ps. It's an ages old tradition in the middle east.
Some foreign nation comes there to mess up and the recruiters gets to have a field day at recruiting new allah soldiers.
Then they come from across the borders to the country where the hot spot is.

...along with logic, you need to study some history.

So, you make up a statement, you cannot back up that statement with any sources whatsoever, but when I question you on it, my logic is missing?

Sweet.

And I need to study logic?

Priceless.

[lord dolf vader]

what i love is how you guys dogpile everyone who dissagrees with any of you. yet you never disagree with each other on anything substansive at all. your views can literaly be so predictable its scary. fox says jump you idiots go how high. so people laugh at you and mock you. your basicly fascists.


he mostly points out that yall are alot of brain dead party line followers even when your obviously wrong or supporting a liar.


get over it or start thinking.

[Toad]

You first.

[Kieran]

Originally posted by lord dolf vader
what i love is how you guys dogpile everyone who dissagrees with any of you. yet you never disagree with each other on anything substansive at all. your views can literaly be so predictable its scary. fox says jump you idiots go how high. so people laugh at you and mock you. your basicly fascists.


he mostly points out that yall are alot of brain dead party line followers even when your obviously wrong or supporting a liar.


get over it or start thinking.

My gosh, have you even looked at Kerry's voting record? You want to talk about lying?

You couldn't sound more like the dem talking points if you tried... harder. I especially love the "wagging your finger in the faces of republican posters for insulting alternate viewpoints" as you, well, "insult republican posters for having viewpoints different from yours."

[10Bears]

Well thank you Mr. Yeager for a reasonable response. Shockingly, even Steve Hortland is being more or less civil.

I dont know much 10bears but what I think the problem was with hussein is that he was hording all the wealth of that nation and the average little guy in iraq wasnt getting anything.

just a thought.....

Fair enough

Mad dictator
Supporting terrorism
WMD's (or if you believe the "Saddam-had-no WMD's"-bull****, WMD-ambitions)
Genocide against own population
Destabilizing the entire region


Well I have ambitions for a new Ford GT40.. Have you seen that baby?.. 500 horse power.. reasonable too.. only 35k.

I applaud your new bleeding heart liberal stance that we should care for and look after all the poor peoples in the world, however, I take the older Republican view that it’s in America’s best interest to not get heavily involved with other countries internal affairs or civil wars as it tends to complicate things even more. Particularly the middle east where there seems to be a major lack of understanding of culture and norms. What you see as Saddams transgressions are mild in comparison to other countries in the same region. For example, under Iraqi law, where hands chopped off for stealing a piece of fruit?.. Was there public beheadings?.. Were women forced to wear burkas or be stoned to death for adultery?.. That is horrible to western eyes but this is exactly what will happen if you allow western style Democracy in this country. This fella, Al Santini is demanding direct elections only once. He is of a mind to bring Islamic law to Iraq which will do nothing, nothing-- to stabilize a platform in which to do business. And THAT my friend, is America’s bottom line.

The idea that we would be so callous, so unforsightful to allow our troops to stand guard and be shot down like pigs in a plough to scrimp on double armor on humves and trucks, to scrimp on personal body armor, ----makes me physically sick.. I break down emotionally and cry at this lack of foresight.    And you call this supporting the troops?

[Toad]

Jeez, 10, ya had me sniffing there.

Callous? Let's see, we have a huge standing army. I'd have to assume the Congress realizes we have them in uniform because there's an understanding that they may have to go in harm's way at some time not of our choosing.

Now, ask yourself WHY there was no double armor on humves and trucks and a serious lack of the new Interceptor personal body armor.

And, when you figure it out, please tell the rest of us.

In fact, when you figure out why we built basically unarmored Humvees to begin with when events in South Africa had already shown the need for better anti-mine floor protection and better body armor, I'd love to know too.

In fact, when you figure out how the whole weapons procurement system works and why some Senators and Representatives (from either party)that are notoriously anti-military anything will fight to the bitter end to keep procuring outdated weapons simply because they are produced in their home district, let us in on that one too.

Maybe this is part of the problem:

April 2000
 
Army Covets Commercial Truck Technology Worldwide demand for rugged vehicles benefits military programs
 
by Sandra I. Erwin

Charged with the operation and maintenance of more than 200,000 trucks, the U.S. Army also is seeking to modernize the aging fleet. The service's strategy for doing so, however, is falling short in many areas, officials said.

"At the current rate of procurement, it will take about 48 years to replace our tactical vehicle fleet," said Gen. John G. Coburn, commander of the Army Materiel Command. Most trucks are designed to last no more than 20 to 25 years. "We have not been fixing our equipment," said Coburn. "We are going to have to go to a better program [to] insert technology."

 

[10Bears]

You know what Toad?.. whoopee IT! whoopee IT.. WHAT!! THAT’S AN EXCUSE????.... That ain’t no excuse.. damn thing costing 400 billion already what’s another 75 billion or whatever it costs get them vehicles plated.. They can do it down in Kuwait .. I don’t care what the cost is.. Even if they can only plate the bottom part at least it’s something.. Jesus H. Mother F__king Christ you can’t tell these families that... WTF!!!!!!!

I’m sorry.. I’m sorry... can’t type right now.. not mad at you.. This whole thing has got me beyond super pissed off..

Will post later.

You know Lowe’s two Sons are there now right?.. oh he’s putting on a brave face for us in the CT.. but I know in the background he and his wife are F-R-E-A-K-I-N-G out..

BTW on a slightly calmer note, Tory’s back.. Thank you Jesus God for small favors in life.. He looks five years older.. He knew the kid from Oahu that got hit Christmas eve.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by 10Bears
You know what Toad?.. whoopee IT! whoopee IT.. WHAT!! THAT’S AN EXCUSE????.... That ain’t no excuse.. damn thing costing 400 billion already what’s another 75 billion or whatever it costs get them vehicles plated.. They can do it down in Kuwait .. I don’t care what the cost is.. Even if they can only plate the bottom part at least it’s something.. Jesus H. Mother F__king Christ you can’t tell these families that... WTF!!!!!!!

I’m sorry.. I’m sorry... can’t type right now.. not mad at you.. This whole thing has got me beyond super pissed off..

Will post later.

You know Lowe’s two Sons are there now right?.. oh he’s putting on a brave face for us in the CT.. but I know in the background he and his wife are F-R-E-A-K-I-N-G out..

BTW on a slightly calmer note, Tory’s back.. Thank you Jesus God for small favors in life.. He looks five years older.. He knew the kid from Oahu that got hit Christmas eve.

Time to take your medication Howard Dean. YEAARHHHHHHHH!

[lord dolf vader]

your morality is in your ass. and your showin it.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by lord dolf vader
your morality is in your ass. and your showin it.

Morality is something you, as a Liberal do-gooder, couldn't recognize IMO.

Is it typical of liberals to "freak out" when they are having a discussion and can't make a point?

Hey here's an experiment: Ask me a series of questions regarding morality and I will answer them. Then you can have an idea of what my moral grounding is rather than assume you know the slightest bit about me.

[Toad]

No, 10, it's no excuse at all.

You see, I agree with you. I think the troops deserve the absolute finest equipment to bring them home alive.

I just bought an Interceptor vest for one of my son's best friends. This kid, a high school buddy, was just about part of MY family during the high school years. He just got called up, he's going to Afghanistan to be in on the Bin Laden hunt. They gave him the PASGT vest.. the old crappy one that won't stop an AK round. He deploys shortly. I thought that sucked.

Why did he get the old PASGT vest? Because the MONEY isn't, wasn't, hasn't been there to buy vests for the entire army.

Same with the Humvees. The money isn't, wasn't, hasn't been there to armor them. Hell, they could have done it when they FIRST designed it. IIRC, there was a LOT of infighting when the HUMVEE was funded over making it more survivable. Cheap won out. Like always.

Now...where do you want to put the blame for that?  Huh?

Wail and moan all you like. This problem is DIRECTLY rooted in the Defense budget. How much they get, how they spend it.

Look at the Congressmen that have kept bad/obsolete weapons systems in production just because it's built in their home district.

Look at the Congressmen that vote against new, better systems because they WON'T be built in their home districts.

And look at all the Congressmen that vote against just about EVERY new weapons system for the military. Kerry is one of those, BTW.

If you're gonna stand ready to go to war anywhere, anytime seems to me you'd better not skimp on the troops.

But we do.

Now, where do you stand on the last defense budget and the new one just proposed? Too much money? Not enough money?

Because it all comes down to money and how Congress spends it.

That's the bottom line and all your shrieking and wailing won't change it a lick.