Roll rates

[Pyro]

Interesting idea Hohun, I've never heard of that before.

Isegrim,  I wasn't referring to a 23 dps roll rate at 400 mph.  I was referring to a 23 dps peak roll rate at 200 mph.

[fats]

Does the spitfire/109 reach maximum rollrate during a 45 degree roll starting from straight level flight? If they have simply done tests from level to a 45 degree bank and timed those.

And it should be obvious I didn't read all the messages in the thread.


// fats

[Shuckins]

Francis Dean had quite a bit of data on roll rates in his tome "America's Hundred Thousand."

I don't have the ability to show his graphs on these boards, but I'm sure somebody does.

By the way, I was surprised to learn while reading this book that Dean could find almost no data on the roll rate of the Corsair at speeds above 400mph.  For anybody who wonders why certain aircraft aren't modeled the way you think they should be, the answer may lie in the fact that much of the data has been lost over the last six decades.  For instance, the Brewster company went out of business during the war.  How much of their data on the Buffalo do you think is still around, hmm?  

Dean also reported that one of the prototype Mustangs had ailerons with beveled trailing edges.  The roll rate of this bird at high speeds was phenomenal...way above that of the standard production P-51.  Can anyone explain how these beveled edges produced this roll rate, and why they were not incorporated on production Mustangs?

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

[moot]

^

[Straiga]

Pyro,
 You are going to have a hard job in front of you good luck.

One thing with roll rates to consider is which way is the screw turning? With abrubt increase of power at the time of roll can vary roll rate in the direction of the screw or opposite direction (IE. torge, prop slip stream). Another is how big is the cockpit and how big is the pilot, can he get the full travel on the stick? How much stick force can a skinny guy produce? How much fuel was on board and in what location? How tail heavy or nose heavy was the plane? What ordinace is on board? How fast is the plane going? Whats the density altitude? Was the airplane controlled by cables or push rod tubes? Were flaps used in the roll?  Metal or fabric covered wings?
 It would be hard find old statistics on any WWII fighter that will have all of this Considered or tell you how the airplane was configured at the time of the testing.    

Good luck!

[Kweassa]

It seems in the latest AH2 patch, the E-4 finally outrolls the SpitI now..

 at 250mph:

* Bf109E-4 360d roll at 5.5 seconds
* SpitI 360d roll at 8 seconds full

 ..

 Got no idea if this is correct or not tho'

 Anybody have an idea where that chart I dug up really came from?

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Kweassa
It seems in the latest AH2 patch, the E-4 finally outrolls the SpitI now..

 at 250mph:

* Bf109E-4 360d roll at 5.5 seconds
* SpitI 360d roll at 8 seconds full

Kweassa,
what are your test perimeters? ie...left roll / right roll / alt / fuel load /

instantaneous  or sustained , not sure if you can actually judge the last 2, maybe possible though, am assuming the roll tested is  aeliron input only, no elevator input.  and did you do these in  an average of say 3 or 5 or just one time each?

[Ring]

pyro that spit/109 chart is from here...

i "think" i have the whole repot somewhere.

http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit1.html

at the bottom

some other info on my page at http://prodocs.netfirms.com

[moot]

up

[GScholz]

Pyro, I understood the Spit I / 109 chart as "roll to 45 degrees from level flight", meaning the chart figures include the time it takes the pilot to physically move the stick to full deflection/50 lbs, and the time it takes the ailerons to accelerate the roll to full roll rate (fighting inertia). The time to 45 degrees should be significantly less for both aircraft if they were at max roll rate from the start of the test.

Just my $.2

[moot]

can't be too much time left..

[Widewing]

I didn't see it mentioned elsewhere in depth, but I strongly suggest that NACA report #868 (all 76 pages) be reviewed for roll data on Spitfires (apparently Mk.V, standard wing and clipped wing).

My regards,

Widewing

[Citabria]

me 262 roll rate
Information from Eric Browns test flight of me262b-1a/u1 wk number 111-980 in may of 1945:

roll rate:
360 degrees in 3.8 seconds at 400mhp (645/km/hr)

AH2 beta 28 me262 is taking 8 seconds at 400mph to do a 360 roll

also 262 acceleration in level flight and in dives takes so much more time to get to full speed, took me over 30 miles to reach 500mph and e bleed is higher than ah1

i hope the fm is unfinished because ah1 262 and its FM is what keeps the game interesting to me when facing a gangbang enemy hoard

[mipoikel]

Originally posted by Citabria
me when facing a gangbang enemy hoard

How many enemies vs. you is needed  that it can be called gangbang?

[Batz]

Aces High II Version 1.9925 Open Beta

Fixed an error in the 262's weight causing it to be underweight