Author Topic: Smoking in Bars...  (Read 7210 times)

Offline miko2d

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Smoking in Bars...
« Reply #120 on: February 19, 2004, 03:12:22 PM »
Stridr417: You can't light up in your cubicle, so why do you think you should be able to in a bar or resaurant?

 You can light up in your cubicle, as well as in your house, appartment or other property of yours.

 Your employer may disallow smoking in his cubicle that you call yours but which really is not.

Smoking is offensive to the majority of people, and public places where people are allowed to go to freely, such as a restaurant, should be free of smoke.

 Public places are the places owned by public. In such places the public can certainly vote to disallow smoking because.
 The restaurant is a private property and it is the owner that allows people to enter it. He is the one who should decide whether his place should be free of smoke, sound, smell or people.

You can't sit at a bar naked, or yell at the top of your lungs without getting kicked out.

 Because the owner does not allow that.

Same thing.

 You really do not see the diffeence between the owner imposing rules in his property or the government that sets rules in his provate property?

 I see that you skipped this thread because you raise the issues already covered, so I will repeat muself using your examples.

 If you allow your friends to smoke and eat at the same time in your private house, and also sit naked also yell at the top of their lungs, why would the government be justified in arrsting you?

And yeah, smoking is something that we will look back on as a quaint and dangerous habit in 50 years... get over it.

 You are smugly claiming something that you have no way to prove as true. It indicates you are just a wishfull thinker who confuses his fantasies with reality.

 Why don't you get over the fact that unless we live in a total police state worse than Soviet Union, people will smike, drink, use drugs and eat junk food? we have heard inane predictions like yours for centuries. Somehow the pessimists were proven right every time.

 miko

Offline Toad

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Smoking in Bars...
« Reply #121 on: February 19, 2004, 03:17:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
The restaurant is a private property and it is the owner that allows people to enter it. He is the one who should decide whether his place should be free of smoke, sound, smell or people....

...You really do not see the diffeence between the owner imposing rules in his property or the government that sets rules in his provate property?...

 


So, Miko..... what of the rules about serving all races? IE, the desegregation laws?

Lester Maddox and his restaurant? He closed rather than obey the laws.

So, are these laws in error as well?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #122 on: February 19, 2004, 03:29:25 PM »
Toad: So, Miko..... what of the rules about serving all races? IE, the desegregation laws?
 Lester Maddox and his restaurant? He closed rather than obey the laws.
So, are these laws in error as well?


 I am not sure what you mean by "in error".

 I believe that desegregation laws restricting the actions of provate businesses are illegitimate because they violate property rights and the right of the free association.

 If someone does not want to have particular people enter his private premices, he may be immoral or repugnant to me but it's his right to choose who he invites.

 You would not invite a rasist into your house and any law that would make it mandatory for you to admit him would violate your propert rights as well.

 miko

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #123 on: February 19, 2004, 03:30:14 PM »
Thats a nice leap, going from choosing whether or not you'd like to have the business of someone who smokes to racial segregation. If anything, banning smoking in bars is closer to segregation than allowing it. You are denying a certain people service unless they change to suit your tastes.

If you people want a smoke free bar, why not get a lot of support from the community and take it up with the bar owner?

The more laws you pass regulating what people can and can not do, the closer to socialism you get.
-SW

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2004, 03:33:38 PM »
But SW we must be safe.  Think of the children!  If you breath stinky smoke particles, you could die or something!  Nobody should die, EVAR.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2004, 03:42:36 PM »
I was just wondering at the consistency aspect.

It does seem to me that if you allow the owner to "make the rules" that apply to his place, then you have to accept segregated establishments.

Note that I'm not saying this is good or bad. I'm just saying the argument has to apply to the full range of social interaction.

IE: Restaurants that do not allow women.

Restaurants that do not allow blacks.

Restaurants that do not allow whites.

Restaurants that do not allow smokers.

Restaurants that do not allow pharters.

It's all of the same piece, is it not?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2004, 03:46:14 PM »
Don't confuse behaviors with attributes.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #127 on: February 19, 2004, 03:50:45 PM »
Well, there ARE gay bars... would you willingly walk into a bar called "Backdoor Brothers" or "The Y ----- Ask"? ****, I know I wouldn't. So, while it may be under my own volition, I am not allowed into a bar like that.

Same if it were a woman's bar, because I can be certain within a .002% error that they are all dykes, old, married, or busted as all hell.

I've walked into a biker bar before... I walked back out three minutes later because it was more than obvious my kind (non-biker) wasn't wanted there.

I could go through a whole list, but some bars are clear as day as to their preferred customers. You may be able to get in, but how long are you really going to stay when its evident from the bartender and the customers that your kind ain't welcome?
-SW

Offline Toad

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« Reply #128 on: February 19, 2004, 03:55:20 PM »
That's not what I'm saying Funk.

Miko has postulated that the owner should be the sole arbiter of who may or may not come into his establishment.

There's no mention of behaviors.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2004, 04:23:16 PM »
Well I gotta agree with him.  First of all, every liberal group (hell just about everybody short of the KKK or Nation of Islam) would jump all over them with boycotts and protests.  Second, they would lose business by restricting their clientele.  Third and most important, the group being excluded could always start a business that caters to their kind.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #130 on: February 19, 2004, 04:25:46 PM »
Oh sure.... how many freaking bars do you think there are for 3 legged trolls??? HUH??

Offline Toad

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« Reply #131 on: February 19, 2004, 04:27:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
the group being excluded could always start a business that caters to their kind.


You're not going to qualify as a "uniter". ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #132 on: February 19, 2004, 04:30:48 PM »
Who cares.
Let's be real.
If a local restaurant put up a sign that said "Absolutely no N*ggers", I don't think too many of us whiteys would patronize it. I imagine that suppliers and potential employees would think twice also.  And it would be hard to get in there with Al Sharpton's crew blocking the entrance.  Some smart entrepeneur would put up a restaurant with a "Negroes Welcome!" sign and put that schmuck out of business.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2004, 04:33:49 PM by FUNKED1 »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #133 on: February 19, 2004, 04:35:34 PM »
Well, there is a clientele for that sort of place. I'm sure some of the "white power" and "aryan nation" types would love it. Maybe enough to make the owner rich. Or not.

Under Miko's assessment, that's how it should be.

All I was asking and all I'm observing is that it won't be just smoking. It'll cover a whole lot more ground than that.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline mrblack

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Smoking in Bars...
« Reply #134 on: February 19, 2004, 05:15:34 PM »
Don't smoke aroung my food!
But around my beer LOL thats ok :aok