Where Have All The Aces Gone?

[Rude]

Goodness Lazs!!!

I had no idea you had no respect for us.

Let me clarify a thing or two....

We fight the way want to fight. Whether you or anyone else approves or not is irrelevant.

Secondly, from your redundant posts regarding how HTC should build this product, I have come to the conclusion that you like to play a game, while we like to play a sim.

Thirdly, for you to expect us to fly low and slow with planes whose strengths are their turning ability or to offer ourselves up to higher inbound cons only tells me one thing...you're not to be taken seriously.

If we were a Spit squadron, then we would fly the Spit to her strengths. Instead, we are Mustang pilots and fly the Mustang to her strengths. You, my little confused self consumed friend, need to get over it. We will continue to fly the way we see fit. Ya see oh great one, we enjoy killin folks while not allowing them the pleasure. Dying and then feeling proud of ourselves because we fought someone elses fight is, well, your bag I suppose.

The purpose of this post was singular in its intent....I just don't see the vets as much as I used to and merely asked where they all have been. Didn't think I'de have to listen to insults by the likes of Lazs.

Next time while online I'll hunt ya up Lazs...we can go to the DA. Imagine, if a boring unskilled pilot like myself could whoop such a stud like you, I could maybe fit in and then you would like me.


 

[lazs1]

rude.. i like you just fine but you asked a question that had an obvious answer.   I do obvious ok.

I actually apreciated your post because it proved a lot of things that i contend are true about the MA.  

I certainly feel that you are entitled to fly any way that you like.. I like that the arena is set up so that your flying late war planes in an organized manner doesn't intrude too much in my game.   It is easy enough to avoid the the few attempts to gang up on me long enough to leave and find a place where there is a real fight.   I don't mind playing dodge ball for a bit with 4 51's taking turns attacking and "extending" so long as I don't have to put up with that boring crap for more than the few minutes it takes to land and find a real fite.  I never said anything about "respect" but I certainly am not impressed by someone holding all the cards and then saying they won the hand.

As for hunting me??  sure why not, but I have to laugh when I hear people say that because the ones who say that never find me and.... I have got to be the easiest guy in the world to find.  Not to mention... I am at best, mediocre at this.   Problem is... you would have to put yourself at risk to actually fite me in the MA.   I have no interest in duels.   I get killed by newbies and vets alike...everyone except the sky accountants.  Like I said.. we are in different sims even tho we are in the same arena at the same time.

I told you how you could have fites with some skilled people.   It just won't happen tho if you insist on holding all the cards.  I don't know what your hangup is with the 51 but it is your problem if fighting is your goal.   Several like minded squads have offered to fite you in like minded ac..  I suppose that you will have to settle for that or for squeak slapping newbies too dumb to know the fite is over when the only planes in the area are high enemy 51's.

Seriously... guys in my squad will coment.. "no fite here, just some high 51's".  It's just the way it is.
lazs

[lazs1]

Oh.. and "singular in purpose"??  you said that you don't "see the better pilots" The vets.. I think that if you actually fought some of these unknowns you might gain a little respect for what they do well.   Some of them are a lot tougher than some of us flabby ol vets.  I don't know... It just seemed like your post came off pretty elitist to me.  Now you want to prove that my style of MA fighting takes less skill than yours by... by what?   going to the dueling arena??  No, that don't work.. grab a mediocre plane and join in the fun.  You might slaughter me or I might slaugter you... either way, it will be fun.   It's not so much that I don't have respect for you or your style it's more that I find it boring and sometimes... anoying.  the less of it I see on a personal level the more fun my evening.  

And Heck... when was the last time you heard me brag about killing someone unless it was to correct them for faulty stats?
lazs

[Am0n]

.squelch lazs


damn doesnt work in here..  

[Voss]

I have noticed that if I hit someone of any talent (a veteran) they will run to a cloud of my friends so that when they die not only am I cheated of the kill, but then they can yell 'gang-bangers' over the radio.

If I kill a newbie, and he's above 5k, he never sees it coming and dies in one pass. If he gets a check six, he dies in three passes, and so do his mates. If he is under 2.5k and alone, he dies at ground level when he augers trying to turn with me.

If, I get in a situation where I find cons above me coming to the fight, I make like a spook and disappear.

If I see lazs I check my cold medicine.

Occasionally, I have climbed to 25k in a Ta-152 to kill a buff. They never respond to my salute.

Occasionally, I have climbed to 20k to kill buffs with my Me-262. Likewise, they never respond to salutes.

Once, I killed tsorde in his P51-D with my Me-262 when I thought he was a buff (deep in our territory and alone). He responded to my salute with "262 in 7,8 sector." No one responded to him, either.

Most of the time I fly less then one sector to find a fight. I climb to about 10k. Since, most kills occur below 2.5k, the only reason to get alt is to avoid the smart guys.

I saw a veteran only once this tour (so far). He put a rocket in the middle of my M3.

I am not a member of the 13th anymore, but I did note one interesting stat. I have seven kills on squadron 'Midnight' and they have two kills on me. That's much better then last tour though, as I went 5:0 with them. Give Pand a medal!  

[ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Voss ]

[Rude]

Lazs....

Please...elitest? That must come from a prejudice formed not by us but somehow brought about by the gameplay which you despise or whatever.

If you really knew us personally, you would realize just how far off that remark was. We are truly friends which fly together and share a common goal...not dyin like a turd and trying to be effective as a squad in whatever we do. Were you around the night we grabbed Zekes and 2k of alt? Headed straight into a big furball right next to an enemy field...was fun. I think Toad got 7 and landed them.

Still, it's just not our bag dad to roll in weeds...we all like the 51. I've flown it since 1990 along with a few stints in a D9.

Ya know what I think? I think many of you P-51 haters look up into the virtual skies and see ponies and think...13th TAS. Well, if thats what ya do, then ya got the wrong 51 squad. We grab 15k and head to the fight, due to the fact that most of us smoke a smoke...then we fly thru the weeds or wherever the enemy is.

As far as proving anything about your style of fighting, I had no intention in my offer to visit the DA of proving anything. I merely thought that someone with such remarks about accounting or lack of skill might just deserve a dose of the truth. For you to say anyone in the arena lacks skill begs the following...just how does Lazs define skill and once defined, will anyone care?

Look Lazs, I'm about as layed back as they come. I have goals when I fly as my squad does, not because I need yours or anyones approval, but rather if I accomplish those goals, I have some fun The goal here is for all of us to have fun, not to piss on each other. If I had thought that I would have spent this amount of time typing on this board today, trust me, I would have just kept my thoughts to myself and perhaps shared them with someone missing the chip on their shoulder.

Cyas in the weeds!


 

[Kieran]

Rude-

Sorry, seems just saying "where are all the old-timers" would have been clearer than saying in effect "We can't find anyone in the arena worthy to fight".

You mention individual pilots and ask if these individuals will "buck up and invite us to the dance?" Why would anyone do that?
 

[Rude]

Sigh!

I hate typin and the phone. I usually get my points across ok...guess this time I failed.

My point was this....I do not see any old timers or vets or aces like I used to...don't ever look for them, just seems I used to see more of them than I do now. I saw math twistin and turnin on the deck the other night...first time in 3 months I bet. Just wondered where they were and if they were around, would they be so kind as to invite us to their party. It's not as much fun pickin off guys that just arrived in AH.

Hope this makes it all clear.

 

[YardBird]

Originally posted by Ripsnort:


I don't remember that one, did you win or I win?

Actually, it was pretty much a draw. I got your engine smoking and watched you dive away, incorrectly assuming you were going down. I kept on flying when your tracers ripped up my #2 engine (which woke me up, didn't expect you to come back at me). We kept playing chaser and chasee, finally your engine quit and you made it back to base. My engine let go about the same time, and I RTB'd on one engine. It was fun.

[mrfish]

times change dude.

won't be long til some of this newbs will emerge as threats.

[Kieran]

Yes, clearer, thanks. S!

[Hangtime]

*yawn*

What? You guys wanna rumble?? Lemme get my teeth... oh; damn; where's my cane.. ahh thanks sonny. Now; if you'll be so kind as to gimme a hand up here into the cockpit...

Oh; damn, I forgot; bee right back, gotta take a leak. can't hold it like I used too..

(back) Awright; where's the damn kid with that handy step-ladder... ah; thanks again sonny. Say; you wouldn't have any denture creme on yah would yah... no; son; thats brylcream; not quite the same thaing..

Ok, lemee see... oh toejam; where's my damn glasses... oh; gee, thanks kid.

(hang taxies out, looks for runway; overshoots, takes off on taxiway thru hanger..)

Ok; where all the bad guys at?

How come every damn time I get up here there ain't anybody around?? Chit; gotta pee already...

And so it goes....  

[Spatula]

Where have all the aces gone? dunno, depends on how you define it. There has been a huge influx of newbies recently from other brand sims, so if there were any, they're still here but your chance of meeting them has been significantly reduced.

Im a P51 dweeb and proud of it, i love the mustang. This whole 'my way of fighting is better than yours because XYZ' is seriously over-simplifiying the issue. Fact is people will always do things you dont like/understand/prefer, so get over it.

As for good fights, i love to find a 412th or a LJK or an Assasin pilot - win or loose its still a bucket load of fun and adrenaline - works for me  

<S>

[wulf14]

One of the best indicators of skill, definitions of good, etc. for any WW2 player vs. player flight sim:

When the guy who has none of the advantages in a 1 on 1 fight can win consistently anyways.

There are multiple guys out there who can be on the deck vs. 2 good opponents (i.e. 2 on 1) and have a fair chance of killing both enemies and living to tell about it. Those guys are really good.

They have good SA.

They have great gunnery skills (you only get 1 or 2 shots in a 2 on 1 vs. good opponents).

They have good evasive maneuver skills. Most people don't know what this means. This means making the bad guys miss while burning a minimum of energy on the part of the evader.

lazs is very very correct in at least one sense. Guys who spend their entire life 'flying smart' and going for a huge k/d will be at a disadvantage when fighting vs. someone who 'alternates styles'.

One of the mantras of JG 14 in WBs...

"The main arena is where you practice trying to live in impossible situations."

In other words, it pays to jump in low to help a buddy sometimes...even though you are making a 6 on 1 a 6 on 2.

The only way to get better at bad odds, bad E state matchup fighting is to do it.

I gurantee you one thing - drex did not get how he is today in online flight sims by only engaging when he had an E advantage over the majority of the enemy aircraft in the area.

But don't take this wrong - there is some merit to trying to live as well. You can't get good at having really paranoid SA until you really care about landing as many sorties as possible.

lazs' yank and bank develops one type of SA very well...much better than 'smart' flying. 'Smart' flying develops a different type of SA.

Just because one crowd has some valid points doesn't mean the other crowd doesn't have any.

Also, a significant number of guys coming from other sims find you average 'hot stick' in AH not too hard to kill one on one. Some guys, who have played only AH, have never fought an enemy with as high an average experience level as say WB 1.11...when the same 100 guys were flying every night.

Don't assume I mean you when I'm talking of an average 'hot stick'. If you assume I mean you then get some self confidence.

But, like in any other sim...many of those high k/d are the product of guys hunting for the last 5 minutes of a field capture. When you catch a 'hot stick' one on one you know after a few seconds how he gets that high k/d...if he has one to start.

The bottom line - k/d and kill streaks are one indicator of many if someone is really an all around 'hot stick'. There are many other indicators, but the bottom line is co-E, similar aircraft, fight to the death, who wins? That's the best way to find out. All other posing and talking means dick.

I've had my disagreements with lazs in the past, but the bottom line is he can maneuver the ugly blue thing and he can make snapshots. Like him or not he's got more practice fighting 1 on 3 15' above the waves than many who blithely dismiss him. I think alot of the 'dismissers' don't want to fight him 1 on 1 in F4Us.

Anyways, you are all both kind of right. But k/d in a MA is only of limited value as proof to others. If you set out to get a 200 kill streak in the MA to prove to yourself you can do it, then you have my sincere congratulations. But don't forget the other indicators of skill.

At least that's my opinion. And I know drex was never in the top 10 of WB kill streaks. Usually because he got bored. Now have a $500 pool for who can get the highest kill streak...in an arena with a side cap of 50 players per side (so no 2 sides vs. 1 gangbang easy kill nights), and average in kills/time...you'd see some previously unseen 'hot sticks' come out of the woodwork. 8)

Mike/wulf14

wulfie of JG 14 in WB

Ancient Fw 190 Psycho

[StSanta]

Rude: no comments on the stats?

Seems our two squads have tangled a few times  .

I must say though: when you're flying along, doing your thing, say at 10k, having just killed and enemy and you look up to see 4 P51's hi in formation - it makes you think.

Mostly in this way:

"Where are some friendlies? I need someone to take their mind off me, so I can bug."

"No friendlies around? Ok, I'll drag them low, in case any show up. Even if they don't, these P-51's will be low and out of the fight for a bit. I might even fool them in the canyon down there".

"Ah, friendly ack. No way I'm fighting four of them".

I know you chaps (quite wisely) initiate the fight with an advantage. We generally head to 18-20k and go in. It's just normal. But, I remember several occasions when a schwarm of Grünherzjägers have met the 13TH TAS, usually with a bit of a alt disadvantage. Both the 13th TAS and the Grünherzjägers have then fought it out, til either the odds are too bad and one part exits, if it can, or dies trying to.

Runners are annoying, I agree completely with that. But, speaking for our squad only, I must say that if we're a kette or a schwarm, we don't bug, even if the enemy has an altitude advantage. If we have some altitude to play with.

We'll have more such fights. And you and your pee-51's shall burn.