Author Topic: Russian word for "Kettle" (Read 990 times)

ramzey · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2004, 06:22:42 PM »

neg, i will show you in moment

german font is unreadable

edit for add pic

LLv34_Snefens · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2004, 07:12:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
yep...but isn't that a German word?

Oh yes I wasn't trying to suggest a russian translation, it was just a comment to batz that the Kurland example wasn't the only one the Germans referred to as a Kessel.

Quote

Originally posted by pugg666
It refers to the intensity of the fighting, house to house...even room to room fighting. Read Cornelius Ryan's A Bridge too far and you get a lot of good descriptions of what you could consider a "kessel".

Personally I have always thought of it as derieved from the shape of the frontline, and not refering to whether the battle was intense or not.
On the other hand once a force is encircled, the fighting is almost bound to intensify, either because of attempts to eliminate the defenders, or from breakout attempts.

LLv34_Snefens · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2004, 07:40:03 PM »

Another thing, slightly off-topic.

Recently I found one GREAT resource on the net.

Scanned versions of actual german maps from the Ostfront, with german positions and units drawn in. Soviet units also displayed in the amount they were know by the OKH.
That's actually very interesting, for instance when looking at the maps around the dates, just before large russian offensives.

Note: ~2.5MB jpg-file
Kurland, Jan 24th, 1945

pugg666 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2004, 07:54:53 PM »

Quote

On the other hand once a force is encircled, the fighting is almost bound to intensify, either because of attempts to eliminate the defenders, or from breakout attempts.

from the reference, translated into english(cauldron or kettle), it seems to indicate the intensity of the fight( boiling cauldron or kettle) it could also indicate an encirclement, but I think the description I gave is closer to reality. IIRC, and someone correct me here if i'm wrong but the Oosterbeek cauldron wasn't an encirclement(the aformentioned hexen kessel).

anyways this is just my understanding of the words used.

miko2d · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2004, 09:01:53 PM »

The russian word "êîòåë" that sounds kind of like "kotyol" (soft 't') is a common military jargon used for a military operation involving encirclement.

The word itself means cauldron, kettle or pot - usually something that is hanging over the fire with a round bottom.

"Kastryula" is a flat-bottomed vessel - usually with two cemicircular handles but sometimes with a single straight one.

miko

Batz · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2004, 10:25:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
Another thing, slightly off-topic.

Recently I found one GREAT resource on the net.

Scanned versions of actual german maps from the Ostfront, with german positions and units drawn in. Soviet units also displayed in the amount they were know by the OKH.
That's actually very interesting, for instance when looking at the maps around the dates, just before large russian offensives.

Note: ~2.5MB jpg-file
Kurland, Jan 24th, 1945

Thanks for the link Snefens, I have smaller scanned portions of a similiar map but this is much better.

I reviewed that site and was wondering if you have seen an orbat for the 10th Guards Army of the 2nd Baltic Front Oct 44 - May 45? I am looking for Tank Regiments in particular.

I have good info on the 6th Guards of the 1st Baltic Front (to the west of 2nd Baltic; shown on the map you linked).

Ramzey,

I just through that together to have something to look at while I tried to figure it out.

Thanks for help...

Dowding · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2004, 04:00:20 AM »

Writing a scenario, Batz?

Batz · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2004, 10:48:44 AM »

Yes,

The Next one as a matter of fact. It is scheduled for May.

LLv34_Snefens · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2004, 05:56:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Batz
I reviewed that site and was wondering if you have seen an orbat for the 10th Guards Army of the 2nd Baltic Front Oct 44 - May 45? I am looking for Tank Regiments in particular.

I have good info on the 6th Guards of the 1st Baltic Front (to the west of 2nd Baltic; shown on the map you linked).

I have found the following for approx July 1944. Accuracy is unknown to me:

10th Guards Army (Suhomlina)

10th Assault Engineer Brigade
37th Tank Regiment (40 tanks - Sherman/Valentine/Churchill)
47th Tank Regiment (35 tanks - T34/76 being replaced by /85)
11991th SPG Regiment (21 SU-76)
6th AT Artillery Brigade
7th Guards Rifle Division
8th Guards Rifle Division
119th Guards Rifle Division
29th Guards Rifle Division
30th Guards Rifle Division
85th Guards Rifle Division
22nd Guards Rifle Division
56th Guards Rifle Division
65th Guards Rifle Division
60th Mortar Brigade (Katyusha)
13th Mortar Brigade
19th Guards Gun Brigade