Originally posted by MoRphEuS
WHAT a choad remark... Your comparing apples to oranges... The ppl at Waco, and ruby ridge are far from being alike to folks like my father, my friends who own guns, myself, most of my family for that mater...
Its not the honest citizens who are the problem its the ones who continue to purchace guns off the street illegaly. Its the honest citizens of the US who pay for these peoples actions... A drug dealer kills a kid with a gun he bought off the street and honest people pay the price for this actions by more laws, more bans on guns, and more needless paperwork to fill out when you purchace a gun...
I've been around guns and in the bisness all my life, since I could walk and even before my father braught me up around guns and honest people who enjoy shooting... Not once did I attend a class like which instructed me and others in ways of which to bring the US Government down... My point here stands, Honest people arent the ones to blame, its the ones that are always being overlooked, the criminals who have laws writen on their behalf by those people in office who think more laws will do good and help to put an end to this maddness and stop all these horrible gun crimes...
Tell me... Since most crimes are commited while under the influence of one substance or another, such as alcohol... Should we need to fill out and SP-67 and get background checked before we purchace a 6 pack?
Lordy you're giving that strawman a helluva beating.
But how does any of what you posted relate to my argument that firearms are of no use against an oppressive government?
It doesn't matter what credo those at Waco or Ruby Ridge held - and frankly I think they were complete loons. They are exactly the same as all gunowners in the one critical area necessary for my argument - ergo: they owned guns. And the fact remains they were easily squashed by the Government despite being well-stocked up with firearms.
End result: Government 2 Rebels with firearms 0.
Seems to me they needed much heavier weaponry to stand a chance. So my original point still goes: unless you're in favour of legalizing much heavier weaponry, the "guns save us from oppressive government" argument is nonsense because they quite patently don't.
You can argue that the Waco or Ruby Ridge lot were criminals, but it's a totally irrelevant tangent, and kind of a tautology in that anyone who stands up against a government with the aid of a firearm is by definition a criminal - that's how the whole government thing works. The only rebels who don't get branded as criminals are the ones that win, and they only stop being criminals when they've won.
Anyone who thinks they're free from government oppression because they own a bunch of firearms is fooling themselves: try not paying any tax and see how far your gun collection gets you with that.
