I need some help....is AH a game or a sim?

[Dnil]

to me, a game by a wide margin.  I changed how I play this game to not let my blood pressure sky rocket.  I will do every dweeb stunt known to man now, never would think of doing that in WB.  I rarely use acm like I used in WB, just grab big cannons and spray.  Will wait and see for the new revisions.  I also think some type of historical terrain would help.  I have high hopes for this game, one of the reasons I stay here pluggin along.

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Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

[BUG_EAF322]

"In FPS shooters I can kill most opponenets with 1 or 2 shots. AH lethality is way too high, 2 bullets and boom there goes your stabs....."


Uhm well but those bullets have too hit those stabs before is has some effect.
and some cannon rounds could do that i think.

Sometimes i get hit and nothing happens and sometimes toejam happens.
guess that's realistic

the physics etc., still surprises me everyday because it's modelled not in the simple way like those fps. I personally only tried some but never got hooked. Only DF got me a bit but that was years ago  

[gatt]

By Yeager:
 

Im frustrated by the way these FMs are performing. How reversals are so friggin rare and altitude and speed are so damned overbearing in their necessity. Frustrated by the lethality of cannons

Well, what you described is a sim and not a Quakeish game. Altitude and speed are the most important things in any serious sim. And 2x20mm plus 2x13mm were lethal indeed.

I for one dont like those incredible WB reversals. One moment you are following the guy climbing, next second he guns your brain out with an HO. This is gaming the game, IMHO.

There are some things i dont like about AH, but I think it is really better than WB. I felt very bad during the first 2-3 TOD here. I had to relearn to fly and fight ... in a more realistic way I think. I'm happy with it ... even if I miss badly the early war plane set.


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 08-23-2000).]

[Badger]

Yeager....<S>

You ask.....is AH a game or a simulator?

It should be viewed by Hitech and Pyro as neither.....

It is a business designed to make money for its investors, which is what all of these companies providing entertainment platforms like this should be.

Interestingly enough, so far regardless of age and maturity of their corporations and product lines, none of these companies are doing anything but burning cash, let alone providing any IRR to shareholders.

Conclusion?  AH, WB or WWIIOL had better be whatever they need to be from a software development point of view, that attracts the maximum amount of players generating enough revenue to cover the costs and provide returns for their investors.  Once at that point, then it is irrelevant as to whether it's a game or a simulation, but it at least will have the "legs" to stand.  The rest will be nothing but memories to old flight sim grognards like us.

Regards,
Badger

Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator? http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline  

[funked]

<S> Pyro

[bug]

AH is a game when you are shootin the crap out of the other guy, it's fun. AH is definately a sim when it's the other way around. Either way for $29.95 a month I would rather spend my time gaming or simming on AH than blowing $2 per hour on WB. Getting shot down in an unlimited time arena doesn't quite piss me off as much as spending $2 for the same result. And I do get shot down more than my share. My hat is of to HTC for the product we get on thier limited budget and manpower. I'm sure it will eventually be the #1 sim/game in the near future.

[Pongo]

That gentleman can defend himself quite handily....

[Pyro]

 

Badger pontificated:
Interestingly enough, so far regardless of age and maturity of their corporations and product lines, none of these companies are doing anything but burning cash, let alone providing any IRR to shareholders.

Did we go public and nobody tell me because I certainly don't remember a quarterly report going out.  Just what do you base your statement on?  

As to us not doing anything other than burning cash, I'll have to take the day off to think about that over a black market Cuban lit with a $100 bill.  You may also be onto something there with the notion that a business has to achieve profitability to succeed.  I'll check with HT and see if he thought about that before he put all his money into starting this company.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[easymo]

 Pyro. I agree with everything you said about the guns. So how about cranking the 20mm back up to where they were

[Hangtime]

“Familiarity breeds contempt!”

Constant daily exposure can frost a guy to the enviornment.. any enviornment! Some of us are guilty of having spent more hours in these simulated cockpits than they did back in '44.

I get the feeling that HT and Pyro have put about a gazillion hours into this upcomming version.. and we all can appreciate just how damn familiar they have become with the enviornment, too.

I, for one; look forward to the new version..
it should be kick bellybutton for a buncha reasons and I'm confident it'll be the best yet.. and thats saying something, since this damn sim (game?? HAH!  ) is already better than anything else of it's gender out there.

Of course, being outta circulation fer the past several weeks MAY have changed my outlook.

A tad.

 

Hang

[Wingnut_0]

 

Originally posted by Kirin:
low lethality is much more arcade like and will attract lots more "gamers" - e.g. FighterAce.
Kirin

I think I was slightly insulted there..hehe.

Not to take this off focus because it's still about the same subject, but FAII is no where near "low lethality" as that I often took P51's down with a short burst from my A-4  

There are a lot of "gamers" in FA and FAII.  But there's plenty there that take their "game" seriously. I came here to get away from the whining about 1 shot kills and how the spit 14 is overmodelled etc.  Apparently I can't get away from that..hehe But before I continue, I don't put down WB's so why must ppl always include FA in these post? (current pain in the arses at the WW2OL site exempt)

There's a lot to a "sim".  If there's 12 different ppl playing, there's usually 12 different idea's on what is "real" and what isn't.  I think the gun's are a little more accurate here, but I think the way the planes "feel in the air" around them is better done in FAII.  I think AH has done a good job on climb rates and over all plane models, but I don't necessarily like their tag system.  I like AH's FM for everything but the stalls (and I think that this might be fixed after the upcoming patch and it's better E retention).

No matter what game we play, there will always be things we dislike or like about it. And I've yet to see any game get everything right.  It's just a matter of making sure what we choose really fits most of the high points we're looking for.

Either way, AH is rocking with it's changes and at least (unlike other sims) they continue to listen to the gripes, and suggestions, instead of turning out a product and just sitting back collecting the money  

Enough of my soapbox, sry for the long post.

Wingnut
"He who shoots first, lives the longest"  

[Dinger]

First of all, Pyro, it's "A Better Tomorrow" and the $100 Bill is counterfeit.
Sorry, somebody had to say it  
Second, those who call ir t a "Sim" are those too embarassed to admit that to spending so much time and money on a game.  Take this simple test: If it's something you're paid to do as part of yer job, it's a sim.  If you do it because you enjoy it (or, gasp, if you pay for it as a non-business expense), it's a game, or at best, a toy.
Get over it.

Besides, I recall playing golf for the first time a month ago, and hitting several shots into the arroyo right in front of a loser from Player Services who was patrolling our hole at the moment.  I came up with some "I'm a loser remark", and his response was, "It's all part of the game".
Games have mystique, sims have fidelity.  Why can't we have both?

[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 08-24-2000).]

[1776]

He heeeeee, this is very interesting!!!

I'm still a happy customer

I think of this as a sim.  I came from AW and compared to AW this is a sim.  I still fly AW(once a week on squad nite).  This to me has become a "hobby", not a sim or a game.  This involves working with joysticks,computers,modems,all the tech stuff.  Yet it involves "art"(the art of flyn, gunnin).  There are so many aspects to this hobby it's amazing!!!

It seems to me that there is something here for everyone.  When ya get bored with the "tech" side you can work on the "art" side, or visa versa.  It should never get to the point frustration because the frustration is self imposed!!

Anyone else havin as much fun as me?  

[Kirin]

Wingnut, I didn't want to insult anybody. I do not put a highger value to serious simmers than on "gamers" (that's why I put the ""). To be excact I started my online flying career with FA - and played it hours and hours, before I switched to AW3. I tried the demo of FA2 and it felt the same as FA but what I say is concerning FA. The FM there just doesn't feel right - planes loose no E, almost no differences between planes (who said the planes here have no character?)the usual fight ends up in a train where 10 ppl follow each other shooting their frontman down, spraying it full with that funny coloured stream of peas.   Best proof who the game is made for: Relaxed realism (don't know anymore how it was called there) are filled - hardly anyone in Full realism...

I believe you that some FA jocks take their game seriously and I don't want to say that the AH pilots are the better ones... everyone should play the game he wants - for me AH is the non plus ultra at the moment...

Heheh - missed the main topic I think. Well, AH is the best WW2 Sim to date but still has a great potential to develop and it's the only game I play at the moment (besides DeusEx   oooh that Warren Spector is a magician)


Kirin

[Lucchini]

I love gaming this sim!

Ciao


Ps How can I post an Image?



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