Author Topic: A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...  (Read 666 times)

Offline Wolfala

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« on: February 25, 2004, 11:55:34 AM »
Don't midair them when they are loaded with children.....


Swiss air crash controller killed ;

The air traffic controller on duty when two planes collided over southern Germany in July 2002 has been killed at his home in Zurich.

Police said an unknown man called at the home of the controller and, after a brief exchange of words, stabbed him.

They said they could not rule out a link between the killing and the crash.

Seventy-one people were killed when a Russian charter aircraft collided with a cargo plane. Most of the dead were Russian schoolchildren.

Police spokesman Marting Sorg said the victim died at his home.

He added that officers were looking for a man in his 50s who spoke broken German.

The controller, a 36-year-old Danish national who has never been named, was employed by Skyguide, the Swiss air traffic control system in charge of monitoring parts of German airspace just across the border from Switzerland.

Air accident investigators have said the controller told the pilot of the Russian plane to descend when its onboard collision warning equipment was telling it to climb.

Skyguide has been criticised for its role in the air accident after investigators revealed that only one controller was on duty when it happened. His partner was on a break.

Investigators also discovered that the agency's collision alert system was out of action for maintenance, and work on its telephone system meant a warning call from German colleagues never got through.

In a statement released after the accident, the air traffic controller acknowledged that errors in the traffic control network contributed to the disaster.

Skyguide said it was appalled by the killing and that its employees were "in shock".

It has temporarily reduced by 40% the number of planes it is allowing into the airspace it controls because of the impact of the killing on the other air traffic controllers.

The company said employees and the controller's family were receiving special counselling.

Zurich police had helped organise special protection, it added.


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline gofaster

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2004, 12:00:30 PM »
ATMS's are over-worked in parts of the world.  Too many planes, not enough people to guide them.  I'm surprised there were only 2 controllers at work.

Offline Wolfala

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2004, 03:47:53 PM »
Ah and the lesson of ATC privatization rings loud. For Americans, lets pray it remains a govt function.


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Pooh21

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2004, 04:32:09 PM »
what a doofus.
Bis endlich der Fiend am Boden liegt.
Bis Bishland bis Bishland bis Bishland wird besiegt!

Offline Pei

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2004, 05:13:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wolfala
Ah and the lesson of ATC privatization rings loud. For Americans, lets pray it remains a govt function.


Socialism! Burn him!

Offline emodin

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2004, 08:46:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pei
Socialism! Burn him!


I don't think he's lighter than a duck.

:)

Offline Pooh21

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2004, 09:13:28 AM »
Just read on german news that they caught a 50 y/o guy who lost his wife and 2 kids in the crash.
Bis endlich der Fiend am Boden liegt.
Bis Bishland bis Bishland bis Bishland wird besiegt!

Offline Boroda

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2004, 10:24:14 AM »
The ATC didn't suffer even minor punishment. That Russians don't deserve any attention, especially when they are just kids from a Moslim republic somewhere in Sothern Urals... :mad:

The whole story shows the absolute absence of responcibility. The guy was going out to drink coffee and had a female frind at the workplace... He made Russian crew not follow a TACAS solution, and literally guided them into that DHL Boeing...

Morale is that sometimes it's better to put a poor bastard to jail for his own sake :mad:

It's strange that the article didn't say that there were kids from Bashkiria on that plane.  Kids going on vacation with only a few adult guides...

Offline Ping

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2004, 03:50:12 PM »
Its really hard to say how any of us would react if we lost wives and or children is such a situation. Especially if someone was negligent.
I/JG2 Enemy Coast Ahead


Offline pugg666

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2004, 06:45:24 PM »
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Its really hard to say how any of us would react if we lost wives and or children is such a situation. Especially if someone was negligent.


No, I'd be looking for someones hide.

Offline Wolfala

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2004, 08:51:35 PM »
No one made the crew ignore the resolution advisory. When I am trained - if I get an RA - **** ATC directives, you follow the tcas.


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline CyranoAH

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2004, 01:36:50 AM »
You are supposing the TCAS was operational in the Tupolev.

Daniel

Offline miko2d

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2004, 09:09:59 AM »
Pooh21: Just read on german news that they caught a 50 y/o guy who lost his wife and 2 kids in the crash.

 I would have killed someone(s) I held responcible. Probably worse.

 The ignorance of the controller is amazing. He should have known the children were muslims. He should have known at least one family was wiped out. He should have relised the danger and moved away, changed his name, possibly occupation and never ever led anyone to believe he was involved into that particular disaster.

 miko

Offline Estel

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2004, 11:47:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Obviously it was. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion.


An ATC command for Tupolev to descend was made _before_ RA command on it, but _after_ RA on Boeing.

1. Why nobody can tell, was there message from Boeing: "TCAS Descending" or "TCAS Climbing"?
2. Where is an ATC confirming "TCAS Descend"?


Do you know TCAS principals?

Offline Toad

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A note to ATM's when dealing with Russian Aircraft...
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2004, 11:54:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
He made Russian crew not follow a TACAS solution, and literally guided them into that DHL Boeing...



Nobody "makes" the Captain do anything once he's in the air. The Pilot-in-Command is in command. He can exercise his emergency authority at anytime. They can question is judgement after the fact but they cannot question his right and responsibility to act as he deems best while in the air.

The Captain ignored his TCAS advisory. I know of NO airline that has a policy of disregarding TCAS advisories in order to comply with ATC instructions.

Sorry, guys but this one falls squarely on the Captain for disregarding TCAS.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!