Author Topic: Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle  (Read 1771 times)

Offline Udie

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« on: August 24, 2000, 12:41:00 PM »
 This Sunday's Snapshot will run with a twist.  The CM (me   ) will ride in a B17 as a gunner, that B17 will be the Memphis Belle and MUST survive the mission.  The mission starts at 4:00pm est Sunday 8-7-00.

 Come and join us it should be fun    Here's the write

up.http://www.ropescourse.org/memphis.htm

Udie

Nath-BDP

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2000, 01:11:00 PM »
Ugh, I'm gonna have to keel all the buffs till I find the 'special one?' Oh well... somebodies gotta do it.  

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Offline AKFokerFoder+

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2000, 04:22:00 PM »
Saweet!  

This bomber and her crew logged more than 20,000 combat miles & dropped more than 60 tons of bombs. In 25 missions they had to replace 9 engines, both wings, main gear, & two tails in England. And yet,no casualties on this B-17!

It also accounted for 8 enemy fighters shot down 5 more damaged,and a probably 12 more damaged or shot down.

The Belle kicked some serious Nazi butt!  

Offline Beefcake

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2000, 04:38:00 PM »
I fell in love with the B17 after I saw the Movie Memphis Belle. Ever since I have been in AH, I have tried to land a B17 with 1 engine and only one wheel down and get it all on tape. I almost did it a few weeks ago but I got my oscar shot off when a CHog vulched me as I was landing my HEAVY damaged plane.

Anyway Udie do I have to sign up or anything? I would really like to be apart of this.
Retired Bomber Dweeb - 71 "Eagle" Squadron RAF

Nath-BDP

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2000, 11:17:00 PM »
Don't mention that 1300 B17s were lost though right? 36 Veirmot to Dhal alone.

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[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 08-24-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 08-24-2000).]

Offline AKFokerFoder+

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2000, 12:39:00 PM »
Yep over 1300 bombers were lost, along with many crew members.

I think for a period the 8th Airforce had about 80% casualties fighting the Nazis.  Alone, without fighter support, those American kids fought off the best the Krauts had, with only a few .50 cal machine guns (and a lot of guts) against heavily gunned waves of Nazi fighters. You want underdogs to cheer for? Man those Lancaster and B-17 crews were out gunned, outnumbered, and over enemy territory from the minute they left English shores. And they delivered the goods, hammered the Nazi war machine, and killed those 190 and 109 pilots in front of thier girl friends. Man thats what I call a Hero.

Thousand of Americans died in the B17s, but she was still a great tough bird.

And thousands of Brits and Canadians died in their Lancasters.  But in the end we pounded those Nazi slimeballs into the dirt. With our British and Canadian buddies we blasted thier goose stepping LuftWaffe from the skys, and and with the Russians great army, kicked the SS and Vermacht butts all the way back to Berlin.

Like it or not, the Memphis Belle kicked butt at a time when an average B-17 made about 8 missions.  They were great airmen flying a great bird.


[This message has been edited by AKFokerFoder+ (edited 08-25-2000).]

Offline Jigster

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2000, 12:50:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+:
Yep over 1300 bombers were lost, along with many crew members.

I think for a period the 8th Airforce had about 80% casualties fighting the Nazis.  Alone, without fighter support, those American kids fought off the best the Krauts had, with only a few .50 cal machine guns (and a lot of guts) against heavily gunned waves of Nazi fighters. You want underdogs to cheer for? Man those Lancaster and B-17 crews were out gunned, outnumbered, and over enemy territory from the minute they left English shores. And they delivered the goods, hammered the Nazi war machine, and killed those 190 and 109 pilots in front of thier girl friends. Man thats what I call a Hero.

Thousand of Americans died in the B17s, but she was still a great tough bird.

And thousands of Brits and Canadians died in their Lancasters.  But in the end we pounded those Nazi slimeballs into the dirt. With our British and Canadian buddies we blasted thier goose stepping LuftWaffe from the skys, and and with the Russians great army, kicked the SS and Vermacht butts all the way back to Berlin.

Like it or not, the Memphis Belle kicked butt at a time when an average B-17 made about 8 missions.  They were great airmen flying a great bird.


[This message has been edited by AKFokerFoder+ (edited 08-25-2000).]

*cough* B-24 crews  

- Jig


funked

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2000, 01:43:00 PM »
A book for Nath:  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1853673838/o/qid=967229187 /sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/002-5837747-8632859

   

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-25-2000).]

Nath-BDP

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2000, 01:51:00 PM »
lol fear the 2/5 stars it got!!

Offline RAM

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2000, 01:52:00 PM »
 
Quote
, and killed those 190 and 109 pilots in front of thier girl friends

 
Quote
With our British and Canadian buddies we blasted thier goose stepping LuftWaffe from the skys, and and with the Russians great army, kicked the SS and Vermacht butts all the way back to Berlin.


 

vadr

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2000, 02:03:00 PM »
[edit]

Hmmmm....seems that I may have inadvertently stepped into an ongoing argument here.

I'll leave you guys to it.

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[This message has been edited by vadr (edited 08-25-2000).]

funked

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2000, 02:28:00 PM »
Nath I know, it looks like a crappy book.  I just liked the title.  

Offline Karnak

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2000, 03:18:00 PM »
Unless I'm mistaken, AKFokerFoder+ was frusterated by yet another blantantly pro-German post by Nath-BDP being inserted out of context into a discussion and responded with an exaggerated and inflametory post.

Nath-BDP, you may not see your post as a hostile, pro-German post, but given the context it was.  It comes across as a snide "Yeah, you had good bombers <smirk>, we killed 1300 of them even though we were outnumbered and it just goes to show how great the Luftwaffe was" type of statement.  The reason that it comes across like that is because of what people were talking about above that.  They were discussing what these boys endured, what they managed to work through.  Not every thread needs a reminder of how great the Luftwaffe was.  We all know what the odds against them were, but there were times when the odds against the Allies were horrible too.  You are known to be pro-German here and anything you post is going to be interpeted in that light, so if you mean it differently you'll have to be more verbose to get your true meaning across.

I have to back AKFokerFoder+ on this one.  I'm tired of hearing how great the Luftwaffe was, indirectly or not, in nearly every thread.  The boys in the USAAF and RAF deserve just as much praise (and more so because they weren't backing a meglomanical dictator).

Sisu
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[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 08-25-2000).]
Petals floating by,
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Offline AKFokerFoder+

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2000, 04:03:00 PM »
The Belle flew from 7 Nov 42, to the 19 May 43.  Here is some exerpts from her logs.  On some missions she was attacked by 50 to 200 fighters.  Only two missions mention that they had escorts. Those allied bomber groups in 42-43 were hung out to dry, and yet they did more than their share. They may not be romantic lone wolf fighter pilots, but they were heros in their own right in any mans book.
 http://www.memphisbelle.com/bulletinboard.html

I love this log entry where the 91st sent the Nazis a Christmas present, 25 of their boys got to go home for Christmas, in body bags!  
"December 20th, 1942 - The air field at Romilly sur Seine, France
      German fighters attacked after the formation passed Paris. A good run with the bombs falling mainly in the hangar and dispersal areas. 91st claimed 25 enemy planes. Lost 2 B-17s."

So much for the mythical-invincible LuftWaffe.  If you really wanna see some stats where the LW got their nuts nailed to a hangar door, check out the stats on the LW vs the grossly outnumbered RAF in the Battle of Britian (what a class group those Spit n Hurricane pilots).


[This message has been edited by AKFokerFoder+ (edited 08-25-2000).]

vadr

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Snapshot 8-27-00 Memphis Belle
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2000, 04:27:00 PM »
OK, I'm sorry, I really am going to stay out of this post after this, because it's now obvious that both sides have a history.

I just can't let this go however.

Fokerfoder, buddy, a lot of the stuff you are spitting out here is just plain wrong, and I've the numbers to prove it to you.

I've no doubt that the 91st claimed 25 fighters that day, but bomber gunners were even worse about overclaiming than fighter pilots (for obvious reasons).

1 example: on the first Schweinfurt Raid (Aug '43), 8th AF Bomber gunners claimed something on the order of 200 kills for the day.

Actual Luftwaffe losses: 25

Memphis Belle is a great movie, but as history, it pretty much sucks.

If you'd like to have an intelligent discussion about this, I'll happily accommodate you, either here or via E-mail. I'm not trying to slam you personally, I just feel the need to counter some of your more inaccurate statements with hard facts.

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