Author Topic: Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)  (Read 398 times)

Offline Kweassa

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« on: February 27, 2004, 12:11:38 PM »
The problem with strat, I've come to think, is that if strats effect gameplay too quickly and directly, people come to hate it because it becomes a limiting factor all too quick.

 However, if strats effect gameplay too indirectly and slowly, it's existence is hardly worthwhile.

 I think, that in the MA, both of these problems exist side-by-side.

1. Field strats, are very few in numbers opposed to typically numerous people going after it. The field layout was designed in the early days of AH.

 An airfield is immediately rendered useless for a time when a handful of fuel bunkers are destroyed. Frontline advances are immediately stopped when two~three barracks are down. A handful of suicidal people can delay many things.

 
2. On the contrary, country-level strats, are basically useless as a target. They act much too slowly. The only target of worth is the city and the HQ.

 The problem with country strat, is that it is designed to effect strat capabilities only when a certain 'sequence' is reached. First kill all the city buildings(halt factory rebuild), then kill all the factory buildings(halt field strat rebuild), then kill the field strat - only by this sequence, the strat factor kicks into action. If any of the 'sequence' goes wrong, all the effort put into it before goes to waste. Since, typically country strats are placed at the deepest of fields, there's hardly ever a chance to initiate the 'sequence' so the strat factor goes into action.

 
 ...

 In this case, logically, I think a 'middle point' has to be reached.

 Many suggestions have come to pass that the only way a really profound strat factor can be applied to the game is by introducing attrition - but immediate attrition, hurts game play. Porking fuels, IMO, can be viewed as an example of immediate attrition.

 On the contrary almost no attritional value at all, is what can be said of the strats - as it is almost impossible to destory so many things at so short limited time in the MA - considering the unorganized nature of players.

 ...


 Would it be possible, that attritional values of strat objects be designed to work slowly, but steadily?

 It's still the early stages of thinking, so I find it hard to describe what I have in mind, but it's something like this;


* If the 'official' policy is to switch maps every one-week term, then the strat values are updated by every real-time, one-day, 24hour length. In the MA, this will be referred to as "Day1", "Day2", "Day3" and etc.

* Field strats, will reup as fast as within 5 minutes when country strat effecting its rebuild time is at 100% efficiency.

* Field strats, will reup as slow as 2 hours, when country strat effecting its rebuild time is at 0% efficiency.

* "Country strat", takes on the form of accumulated damage.

* The visual objects of country strats, such as factory buildings or HQ, will of course, can be destroyed and rebuilt. But the strategic "value point" it holds, does not replenish.

* Every one-day term, the total damage done to a certain country strat objects are calculated. If the total damage exceeds a certain set point, then 30% of country strat efficiency goes down.

* Every one-day term, country strat replenishes 10% of its strategic efficiency.

* Therefore, when a certain side has extensively done enough damge to country strats in a certain day term, the country strat efficiency will go down 20% ({30% down in strat efficiency due to total damage exceeding the set limit} - {10% replenished strategic efficiency})

* For example, if Rooks attack Knit country strat of radar facility, constantly pounding it at Day1, and succeeding to exceed the set damage point: at Day2, the Knit radar facility efficiency will be at 80%.

* This means, rebuild time of destroyed field objects will be slowing down. In the example above, ALL Knit radar at ALL Knit fields, will be effected in rebuild time if destroyd, at Day2. Knit radar facility, will be at 80% efficiency

*The effect of strat efficiency - rebuild time is suggested as follows;

 100% - 5 minutes
 90% - 7 minutes
 80% - 10 minutes
 70% - 15 minutes
 60% - 25 minutes
 50% - 40 minutes
 40% - 60 minutes
 30% - 1 hour 10 minutes
 20% - 1 hour 30 minutes
 10% - 1 hour 50 minutes
 0% - 2 hours
 
* So, in the example, in Day2, Knit radar facility efficiency will be down to 80%. If a radar on Knit base is destroyed, it will take 10 minutes to rebuild, as opposed to Day1, where all country's strat efficiency is at 100%, it will take only 5 minute to rebuild.

* This strat efficiency will be allowed to be resupplied/recovered by player supplies, but it should be fairly difficult to recover. Someting like 20 goon drops = 1% replenished value. To recover 10% manually, without waiting for automatic replenished values the next day, it will take 200 goon supply drops.

* The "total damage value" set for a country strat, which determines if a country can successfully bust 30% of the top efficiency the next one-day term, should be fairly high. Something like two Lancaster formations reaching enemy country strat once every hour,  for 24 hours -> 48 Lancaster formations -> 144 Lancaster bombers in a 24hour term -> 2 million 16 thousand pounds of bombs.  

* The city, will effect how fast a town reups.

* If this works, I view that MA gameplay can become something like this:

 1. one week term of a certain map starts.
 2. at Day1, every strat object rebuilds within 5 minutes. Including town.
 3. so at Day1, field capture is extreme difficult. There will be a lot of furball fights. with almost nothing effecting the fuels. If one side wishes to capture a field, they will have to get a goon standing by, CAP the field completely, and precisely time the goon drop to advance.
 4. so at Day1, the advancement in frontlines will be pretty much stagnant. But lot of furball fights will happen.
 5. if, a certain side, is compelled to look further out than just Day1, they will start strat attacks.
 6. Ideally, by Day 4~5, if a certain country has planned its long=term strategy well, some of enemy country strats will be effected and downed to 50~60%.
 7. by Day6~7, reset phase becoming imminent, the losing country will have its strats down to 10, 20%, or even 0%.

 ...


 The strengths of this strat system, is that there's literally everything for everyone. At Day1, it's furballer's paradise. Field porkage almost doesn't work. Everything reups in 5 minutes.

 If, strat players look ahead of that, they will start hitting enemy country strats massively - but this, will not effect the gameplay profoundly in the first 2~3 days of a new map.

 If the strat players succeed in the difficult task of hitting country strats for all week, then at the last few days of the map, it becomes strat paradise. If strat players fail to do that, it will be furballer's paradise for whole week.

 So, it's a sort of a no-negotiations, fight to get what you want, style of strat with delayed attrition. If strat players organize large missions and hit strats continuously for days, in the final phases of the map they will have almost total victory - many field objects, and even towns, staying down for max 2 hours! But that will be a difficult thing to do.  

 If furballers sense the potential danger of that, they will divide their time to cooperative defense, and stop strat players from porking things for days, and reaching their objective.

 In the first few days, furballers will be dominant, with lot of plane fights with fuels uneffected. So the only way of field advancement will be total vulch and swarm tactics - strat players will have to divide their time to strat planning/action and, local defense.

 So ideally, if it works, it will naturally compell both sides of the different groups of players to participate in various actions, in a cooperative manner without anyone yelling at anyone.

 So, for the strat guys:

*Pros: The attritional power of strat is immense, very powerful. If continuously succeeding in large-scale strat attacks, in the last days of the week, the enemy will be almost totally helpless.

*Cons: Objective is very slow to reach. Very high standards of success. Lot of organization and many people required in a week-long effort.

 For the furball guys:

*Pros: Games starts in a position where furballing fun is extreme. If successfully defend important strats, they can practically furball for whole week.

*Cons: If everybody indulges in to too much of near-sighted fighting, the last few days of the one-week term, will be incredibly difficult.  

 
 For everyone:

*Suicidal porkers are largely neutered for almost whole week(as long as country strat efficiency stays over 70~80%). Short-term, immediate suicidal action rarely effects anything. Besides, nobody would be pissed if a deluded suicidal dweeb goes kamikazeing in some corner of the map, all by himself, doing pitiful damage to strat targets which is of no use.

*The fun for the whole week - strat players may not achieve their objectives, but they'll get the chance to try a worthy challenge which lasts for the whole week. Furballers, will not see things getting worse - if country strat efficiency is down to 40~50%, it's still about the same as now. Only when it is totally down to 10~0%, will it become significantly worse for them.

Offline simshell

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2004, 10:11:49 PM »
thats a very good idea

i have allways felt that the factorys are not causing to much havoc


but the whines would go on forever and the hole player base would whine

this is what i would think it would be




I DONT WANT TO FLY A BUFF AND SPEND 30 MINS TRYING TO HIT A DEFENDED TARGET THAT MAKES ME HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO BOMB ONLY TO BE BLASTED BY FW190'S AND BF110'S trying to stop me and since my bomber cant fly past at 400mph its way to hard and takes to much time
WHAAAAA


:rofl
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Offline Urchin

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2004, 10:23:51 PM »
What is the cliff notes version?

Offline Hap

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2004, 12:03:44 PM »
since the goal built into the game is to win the war, the strat system we have now works fine enough.

certainly, folks play with individual aims in mind, e.g. furballing and others.  some complaints stem, i think, from the game being too realistic for some people's wishes, available time, and what's just plain fun for them.

if winning the war were not the game's goal, the our current strat system would be unnecessary.

i think, our current strat system mimics well enough a country's problems if they would make war: 1) manufacturing, 2) supply and/or distribution, 3) and of course soldiers and equipment (though i'm not sure that equipment per se is an issue in aces high).

i've read, but i forget where, that japan thought they had enough resources for a 10 month campaign.  i've not read a similar assessment of germany's abilities.  it seems to me, that in both theaters of war in ww2, what happened is not too different from what happens when any of our own countries loses the war in aces high.  that country's front line is breached due to lack of supply and resources (north africa comes to mind)--either in the form of ammo, fuel, troops, etc, or lack of soldiers--a sneak where no one defends, or being overwhelmed numerically.

on a side note, i think, though i don't know, but ah2 may suit furballers more because the towns are much larger and that may make base captures more difficult.  granted, a porked field is still a porked field, but the extra time it may take to capture might be enough to allow internal and manual resupply.  will have to see how that shakes out.

lastly, here's a real dumb question .... has the combat theater been set up to minimize porking and maximize furballing?  i ask, because i don't spend enough time there to know.


Offline DREDIOCK

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2004, 03:19:57 PM »
Refer to my strat suggestion originally posted in  AH II forums

Strat Suggestion
This has been mentioned before im sure But I personally would like to see.

Aircraft Factories. Spits Factories would be my choice but I am thinking perhaps Individual factories for all planes that have an early war Variant. Spits, 109's P51's Etc.
that is once a factory is destroyed only the earliest war variant would be available for say an hour. All other variants would be disabled.
Same basic thing can and should be done for heavy bombers.
Detroy bomber factories and 17's and Lancs would be disabled

This would give the strat guys something else to do besides just pork bases and the HQs
another idea is to have ammo factories determine what type of ammo is available. The more a factory is destroyed the lighter the payload available. Much the way HQ controls Dar now.

On Map design

My opinion is the deeper you get into a country the harder it should be to capture its bases.
In alot of instances its actually harder to defend a feild then it is to attack and capture it.
As in real life Terrain should almost always favor the defender. Especially in Gvs
The attackers and hoarders are going to attack reguardless of terrain. Why layout bases in such a way that it makes it easy on them?

And finally. for the moment anyway.

A note on HQ and Radar, Again MY opinion.
Each feild should have its own local Dar. HQ should be the center that links them all together. That is when HQ is down then you should only receive local Dar rather then all dar going down.
Perhaps add some early warning radar stations away from airfeilds similar to what the Brits had along the coast of england.
these would be controlled by HQ and/or local feilds.


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Offline Tilt

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2004, 05:53:21 PM »
I didnt take this all in word for word...............

It seems to me that if the HQ was taken out of the equation and cities made harder then the rebuild of cities by the host could be removed totally.................


Basically given a  6 day "campaign" strat would be gradually reduced............. requiring more player resupply of fields.........

Infact when we see big mission pork and capture runs we also see rapid (player)resupply following them if they are to succeed contiguously.

IMO the HQ is an anachronism of smaller arenas............... radar ability is best attritted locally by hitting the base radar. Even now  radar (dot)and dar bar(counter) can be set to be tower based with differing ranges.

These ranges are upto  50 miles (dot) and 75 miles (counter).

Thats upto 2 and 3 sectors. Given maps like festers that requires radar to be porked 3 fields back from the "front line" to switch it off at the front line and then only locally. This could be done now ........its an arena setting.

To test the removal of the HQ from strat HTC merely sets the HQ to indestructable (250 x 1000 lb bombs)and sets the dot and counter radar to tower based at maximum ranges.
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Offline Hap

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2004, 05:21:37 PM »
why would changing dar settings be a good thing?

Offline Morpheus

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2004, 10:08:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
What is the cliff notes version?



ROFLMFAO..... Was just looking for them myself
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Offline ET

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Fundamentally new "miracle cure" strat system..(?)
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2004, 04:25:32 AM »
Interesting concept. Only concern is 200 resupply to bring up 10% of a base. Its hard to get anybody to resupply bases now.
Base resupply is not part of bomber or vehicle rankings as base capture is and many people will not do it.