damage model in ah2

[acepilot2]

This is the big one for me-what I have been waiting for.  So far I am satisfied with what the bulletholes look like-however I am hoping for good fire and smoke effects that come out properly.

Currently, fire is kinda weird.  It only comes out when the plane is ripped in several pieces, it is a cardboard cut out, it is too light, and the motion it makes is unatural looking and feeling.

Fire should come out when fuel tanks are hit, and should appear in other parts of the aircraft other than the fuselage, possibly from the wings, too.  One effect I would love to see that cfs had is sort of "dynamic burning" so fire would actually burn up your aircraft-for example, lets say the fuel tank on my wing was hit, and fire came out-eventually the fire could actually blow or burn off the wing, or maybe could travel across the aircraft slowly.  If it got to the engine, it would ignite it and blow up in an explosion,  and the entire nose of the aircraft would come off-that was one of my favorite effects in the game.  

also, parts breaking off.  for the most part it is currently fine but it would be cool to see them look alot more "natural" with metal frame underneath.  

Here are some pics of fire, smoke, and parts breaking off from cfs2 and wbiii.








*note the pic of the p38 on the ground-this is a cool thing that wbiii has that actually shows the plane crashing when it hits the ground. Currently in ah just a explosion happens, but in wbiii it shows the plane crashing and dragging along the ground. this would be awesome to see in ah.

[acepilot2]

Now-bullets hitting the plane.  Currently imo it feels like the bullets bounce off the plane with tennis ball sprites-it doesn't really feel like you have achieved a hit on the aircraft.  In cfs and wbiii, when you hit a plane with a bullet, tiny puffs of smoke come out and some debris, which if very similar to guncam footage.  When you hit a plane with cannon, makes a quick flash rather than having a tennis ball sprite in cfs2.  of hitting a plane with cannon-note the flashes, debris, and smoke. Note that it seems like there is alot more than there is due to the fact that in this screenshot it is really close to the plane.



the last thing-explosions.  Currently the ones we have are cool with the shockwave effect but the smoke is still 2d cardboard cutouts.  Here is what I'd like to see:



one last thing unrelated to damage model-I would like to see smoother terrain like this:




BOTTOM LINE: smoother smoke and fire effects, debris and puffs of smoke when hitting a plane, less 3d cardboard cutout explosions.

[ChuBBs]

we need damage model like this

[B17Skull12]

better damage model is to cool effects but
cool effects is to frame rates go tumbling down the hill.

[Kweassa]

better damage model is to cool effects but
cool effects is to frame rates go tumbling down the hill.

 Not if its done sparingly, and with discipline. European Air War actually has a better visual quality than AH2 when it comes to depicting gun hits - and that's a game from 1998.

 The hit sprites themselves, aren't so bad in AH2. It could be placebo, but it feels that the hit sprites are much less visible over far distances. They are also smaller, and remains for a very short time on one's FE, effectively depicting a 'spark' when AP round hits a metal surface. In AH1, the white globs were much too big, much too visible, and stayed on one's FE for too long.

 Now, in acepilot's second post, third picture of a F6F-3 being hit, those are the kind of effect remains wanting in AH2. It doesn't necessarily need all that amount of smoke and lighting effect, but just the right amount of smoke and lightings, maybe even animated sprites as an alternative, would make cannon hits a lot more convincing.

 
 As for the damage model, I remember the video from AH Combat Hangar website, which introduced to us what AH2 would be like, for the first time. There was a mock-up used on the wing of the P-51D, depicting damaged surfaces which looked pretty good. And HT, specifically answered to a question; "the bullet holes will appear exactly where they're hit". Now that's something even IL2/FB hasn't done yet. Maybe it was an ambitious plan that could be cancelled during actual development phases, but I'm hoping it is not.

[jodgi]

I'm not trying to disregard the fun-factor in VISUAL damage model, but I value the "actual" damage model higher.

If other sims visually portray a simpler damage model with pretty graphics, it is all good.

But if AH2 has a higher fidelity "actual" damage model with less eye candy, I will prefer it.

But I will ofcourse be happy with the best of the two worlds

[acepilot2]

CFS2 had, imo, a pretty damage model that was very in depth-it modeled TONS of different parts of the aircraft.  

as for framerate, cfs2 was released in 2000 and ran excellent on a 900mhz pII, 128 RAM, 16-bit graphics card machine.  They must have done something to get it to run so well.  Same thing with WBIII, too.  

btw, I would like to see the fire burn effect too.  you didn't see burn marks on anything to fry your machine,  just saw  the fire itself which was pretty to look at. It  would just be programmed so "left wing blows off after fire burns on it for x time"

Read the top text on alot of the screenshots-even though it was annoying when playing the game to have text explaining everything that was going on in your plane, it explains well the depth of the CFS2 damage model.

the bulletholes in the glass are cool, I am sure we will have those. I am not worried at all in the decal/bullethole department after seeing ah2 video.

[acepilot2]

hmm idea just occured to me regarding framerates.  

How about toggles? Lowest detail would basicallly look like our current dm with cardboard cutout fire and explosions, highest would be like CFS2 with debris and lots of bulletholes and smoke and fire-maybe toggles for debris, extra smoke, animated flashes, etc.

[GODO]

IL2, CFS2, FB, even EAW, all of them looking far better than actual AH2, but all of them are boxed games with lots of MBs for graphics. What intrigues me is that all of them run also much smoother than actual AH2 in my machine.

[moot]

Actual AH2 on your machine's a beta version.

[ChuBBs]

why not give us a taste of it HITECH!!  if only for the p51  just so we can see it.

Asfar as eyecandy. Why not like the graphics  you can ajust how much is shown. All, Med,Little.  But even if you cant see it all your plane still reacts to the hits.

[BenDover]

Originally posted by Kweassa
And HT, specifically answered to a question; "the bullet holes will appear exactly where they're hit". Now that's something even IL2/FB hasn't done yet. Maybe it was an ambitious plan that could be cancelled during actual development phases, but I'm hoping it is not.

It is possible....at least in a single player game. Ever try drawing a smiley face on the side of another B17 in B17 2?