You can always tell when Ripsnort is online...(pic)

[AKDejaVu]

BTW.. the main goal of a mission is to be successful... so the likelyhood of finding the base with the highest chance of success is pretty great.

Kudos to those that plan missions that are risky/daring/away-from-the-norm.  I've seen HQ raids by typhoons that flew in on the deck... base attacks by flights of zekes... 4 plane strikes at 4 bases simultaneously... many different things... original things.

"Lets take 40 people to the nearest undefended base" is not risky.  It is not impressive.  There are a couple squads running around the arena that really enjoy doing this.  You'll know who they are when you see 10 lancs, 10 C-47s, 10 typhoons and 10 Mossies hitting a field with 2 defenders.

AKDejaVu

[Raubvogel]

We can't all be master tacticians.  

[muckmaw]

Actually, Ak, Rips mission's are the highlight of the game for me. I'm not one for furballing, and prefer an organized, controlled mission with a stated objective.

You're mistaken in your assumption that most missions are against undefended targets. Quite the contrary is true. The minute the dar lights up with the mission, we face heavy opposition. I've yet to fly on a Rip mission where I've not fought tooth and nail to hit the target.

Whether or not the rest of the arena is bored, I cannot comment. All I know is Rips built quite a reputation for being a good leader, and strategist (Even if he never gets the runway right). I'd fly with him anytime.

[AKDejaVu]

LOL! Um... this isn't a critique of Rip's strategy skills.  Strat is completely irrelivant when it comes to hitting one base.

Also, there is a reason so many people participate in the missions... I'd have a tendancy to say they like them.  They like them so much they are willing to completely abandon many other aspects of the game to focus 1/3 of a country's forces on one relatively undefended target.

Oh... sure there is usually a defense that comes up.  But that defense is not there when the mission is planned and launched... and it usually isn't even there until 40 red dots show on the bases dot dar.  Then you have 10 people scrambling to climb to half the alt of the incoming attackers.

Most of my "bad attitude" about missions in the MA right now stem from the concept that, as a rule, they need to be planned for the highest chance of success (most men vs fewest opponents).  Everyone thumps their chest afterwards and clammors about how great missions are and how well planned this one was... and so on.  Its downright silly.

How about... "there's only a few of us, but we have been tasked with making an impact..." type missions... planning to go up against the odds, not play them.  Pull that stuff off (I'm sure rip has done a few of these too...) and then be proud of planning an organization... because then it accomplished something without having to resort to tossing 40 people at something.

40 planes launching from a field merrits a "neeto! that's 40 planes launching from a field"... nothing more.

AKDejaVu

[hazed-]

AKDeja you really are a miserable sod  

when these missions actually start with a decent number THEY ARE FUN to fly in.ok maybe not when on the receiving end but then thats not my concern.
The more missions i see or make the more i enjoy this game.
Deja you say the mission strips a 3rd of the countries players but guess what WE CAPTURE BASES! What do you do al day in AH? furball?
If you want to define a waste of a countries resourses in planes/pilots then a mass furball between 2 bases is probably the BIGGEST waste of all.
I say <S> the mission builders,they are by no means easy to get filled up.
I would agree with you AKDeja if these missions involved no thought or were pointless but you are wrong.Sometimes the ONLY way to break out from 2 countries ganging up on yours is to ORGANISE a break out capture or mass sweep.

I think your attitude to what others like to do in this game or what they like to participate in, including flying in or making missions stinks mate.stop being a SOURPUS'  

Missions: they dont happen all that often and when they do I and many others enjoy them.

[muckmaw]

Actually, AK, you said it yourself. The key to a mission is success. Of course, flying against an under-defended field is boring. I may as well go play MS-FS, for that matter.

But I have to defend Rip in saying:

1) His missions are planned to make an impact on the overall map, regardless of enemy defenses. So one mission may go without many bogs, while another will be awash in a sea of enemies. The point is, the mission is planned for success, to make a difference in the game, and regardless of whether or not the target is defended. I've never been on a mission where the plan was to simply grab an undefended base, just because it was undefended.

If the enemy chooses not to up a serious defence, that's not our fault.

2)Launching a small attack, or a suicide run just to launch a mission is contradictory to what you said. It's hardly planning a mission for success. I've flown many sorties against the odds, in missions and out, and it quickly becomes apparent that my sortie would be better served elsewhere. I've no problem fighting into a sector, but I don't bother with overwhelming odds, as it's merely a waste of my time, and my coutries resourses.

Finally, I must agree that one mission of enormous size drains resources from other fronts. However, you cannot blame people for wanting to get in on Rips missions. As I said in my last post, they tend to be alot of fun, whether or not they are succesful For me, personally, it beats the hell outta flying a lone lanc to drop a base that will re-up before I even land.

Call me Amish, or a sky accoutant, but I prefer to fly for results. It's just my style, and I don't expect anyone else to fly with the same disposition.

Sorry for the length of this post.

[AKDejaVu]

Deja you say the mission strips a 3rd of the countries players but guess what WE CAPTURE BASES!

Ah... OK... doesn't matter that 2 people could most likely have done the same thing.  Just sit back and congradulate yourself on using the right amount of resources to accomplish the task.  

One of the primary flaws in the MA right now is a simple concept: excess is best.

Excess in regards to offense.  Excess in regards to defense.  Excess in regards to what is needed where.

• Respawning excessively
• Bringing 40 planes to hit an undefended base
• 10 planes hovering over a PT spawn point waiting for another boat to spawn (see first point)
• 8 planes chasing 1 con
• 20 people responding to a call for help after the attack has been fought off and nobody is left (wow.. amazing how fast "defending" gets boring when done like that)
• buffs at 35k still hanging out after bombing a target
• 10 dorks chasing 1 buff at 35k after he's bombed the target

The list could go on.  "I'm going to do whatever I like a whole lot".  Yep.. that's a winning formula.  No need for variety here... everyone please disperse in one group.

 

What do you do all day in AH? furball?

No.  And I definately don't spend all day in the arena under the illusion that flying along with 40 people to capture a base in hopes that I can get at least one ground target or spawning aircraft before the capture is a blast.

 

If you want to define a waste of a countries resourses in planes/pilots then a mass furball between 2 bases is probably the BIGGEST waste of all.

Ah... the argument over which is a bigger waste of resources.

Here's something I teach my techs:  If you are confronted about something and have to resort to "well... what about them!" for a defense... you've lost already.

I've made my points on endless furballing pretty clear.  But this thread isn't about that.

 

I would agree with you AKDeja if these missions involved no thought or were pointless but you are wrong.

I never said they required no thought.

I never said they were pointless.

I said they were excessive.

 

Sometimes the ONLY way to break out from 2 countries ganging up on yours is to ORGANISE a break out capture or mass sweep.

Wow.. even you have to resort to using the word "sometimes".  Of course, this is a tactic only used by a country that is in the hole.  Its never used by two other countries to put one in the hole.  Yep... its so saintly its frightening.

Its not all the fault of mission planners, nor participants or even furballers.  Its the fault of a strat model based on one objective and zero guidance.  I can't even really blame HTC for that... because I don't think many people actually want that.  Its basically a no-win situation.

 

I say <S> the mission builders,they are by no means easy to get filled up.

I say <S> to the mission builders that take the time to plan practical missions.  <S> to the mission builders that know what "too much" means.  <S> to the mission builders that are so good at planning these types of missions that filling them is not a problem.

The tone of the original thread is that <S> and success are deserved purely based on how big your missions are.  It is flawed to the core.  Its like saying that the 90 DMD that fly missions together make them the best squad in AH... all because their missions are so huge.

And Muck,

Making the missions relevant and practical is the key.  When Rip does that then <S>.  The gist behind this pick is the shear number of people participating makes it a success.  I'll disagree with that forever.  Hell.. more would have been accomplished with a pic of 4 Typhoons flying in formation with 4 Bombers in the background... or 4 P-51s escorting 2 lancs.... or three flights of attack craft on the horizon.  Make em emersive.  Make em practical.  Make them smart.  If you can only do this by using huge ammounts of aircraft... then what does that say?

AKDejaVu

[Nifty]

Deja, did you use 10 lb or 15lb test on your line?    

edit to be on topic:  Rip missions are usually pretty fun, sometimes there's no resistance, sometimes there's a lot of resistance.  The ones I've been involved in had nothing to do with which base is the least defended, it's always been which base will help us out the most to attack.

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Nifty ]

[Swoop]

I agree with Hazed, DjV is a miserable sod.

 

[AKDejaVu]

That may be swoop, but at least I stick to the topic of the thread.

You can stick to your drive by slingings... well at least I give you credit for finally sticking with your original ID to do it.

AKDejaVu

[muckmaw]

Agreed, on that final point, AK.

If you can get the job done with 8 planes, you have planned and executed a truly superior mission. I think this goes without saying.

IMHO the ultimate achievment for a mission planner would be to launch and coordinate several smaller, simultaneous attacks on adjacent bases. Though difficult to plan, and even harder to execute, this type of attack can be crippling to the enemy. I'd love to see more of these.

[AKDejaVu]

BTW, none of my posts here are intended to imply any kind of "YOU STRAT potatoS!" message.

Its just that, to me, the idea of 1/3 people from one country doing anything at just one point on the map is silly.  Whether its a 40 man attack on a field... or 40 people furballing at it.

"The masses have spoken"... that doesn't mean I can't disagree.

AKDejaVu

[NUTTZ]

Theres a reason people join Rip's Sorties....

First off he has earned respect. You know how many times "newbies" scream for a goony, I take one to find city still up, enemy hi cap, and no friendlies once i arrive. Rip's been around the block,and i trust him.

His sorties are fun and usually grab a fun group of people i don't mind flying with.

Alot of people join his sorties , so Ussually we accomplish the objective.

He doesn't SCREAM the sortie is up and belittle everyone that doesn't join.

He gives a freindly countdown till "wheels up" and you get plenty of time to finish your fly and land/auger.


But then again..., i could be wrong

NUTTZ

[Animal]

I never thought of that Deja.
No wonder I find big organized missions boring -- because I never see action.

[FlyingDuckSittingSwan]

Ok, 2 observatrions I want to make here.

1) I remember Ripsnort organising these big missions which I liked very much!

2) LePaul, you must have a very fast system. What resolution are you running there? I could only run the minimum 640x370 otherwise my framerates were really crap.   That Lancaster looks bootiful!