Any lawyers here?

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Dingbat
Actually you are quite wrong.  Ever hear of wrongful termination...

No.... because it doesn't exist.

A couple little dittys for a quick education....

But perhaps it's more accurate to say that the absence of laws is what really grants employers their leeway. In turn, just because an employer unfairly fired or forced an employee to quit, doesn't necessarily mean that the employee suffered wrongful termination, at least not according to law.

However unfair, for it to be the illegal act of wrongful termination, an employer must violate a specific state or Federal law, regulation or constitutional provision. Unfortunately, there's no such thing that generally protects employees from "crummy deals" per se.

To further understand what legally constitutes wrongful termination, it's important to also note that most states consider employment to be "at will" in legal jargon. In plain English, the employment at-will doctrine means that, in the absence of contracts stating otherwise, employment is presumed to be voluntary and indefinite for both employees and employers. As an at-will employee, you may quit your job whenever you want, usually without consequence. On the flip side, at-will employers may terminate you whenever they want, usually without consequence.

[Mike_2851]

Yeah, Bodhi that is a point I missed.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you on this point but I would suggest that it depends on what and how it was said. That would determine it's legality. Bad management style for sure but might not be illegal. If you document this sort of behavior and treatment and forward or anonimosly send it to someone higher up in the chain of command then you might get your boss a reprimand-but you would probably never know unless the unwelcome acts discontinued.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Dingbat
Is this legal? Is it legal to take a business tool from someone and then fire them because they can't perform their duties?

 

Please see first weaselsan post .....

[Thorns]

The company I work for provides me with a cell phone.  Since I am the regional manager, I budget the use of cell phones by 8 district managers.  We are all on a plan which has "x" amount of anywhere minutes a month, but if we are on the road much of the month we will use a lot more minutes than if we were in our field offices'.  Every month I get a detailed summary of the use of the cell phones, it is for record, but I rarely read it, and look at the bottom line for any overage of minutes.  I can change the plan, and usually my people have more minutes than they would ever want to talk(2000 minutes).  My people respect the personal use of the cell phone.  I encourage my people talk with their familys, or friends, as much as they like, as long as their work, and company phone calls are promptly completed.  If my company had a policy of only company business on the issued cell phones, all my guys would just get their own cell phones, and believe me, every "company" phone call would automatically go into voice mail.  The return phone call would be 59 minutes later, and their personal cell phones would be subsidized on their expense reports somewhere, no auditor would ever find.
Lesson one:  Don't mess with a guy when he's away on business most of the week, or month, and trying to keep peace in his home life.  The cell phone is his lifeline to hearing the people he loves, and his wife, and children need to talk to him whenever they want.   I don't want to train a new troop every month.  My people have time in grade from 28 years to 5 years.  And my people are expected to work hard, have fun, travel, make money, and have a happy home life.
Dingbat your leaders aren't very good leaders.  The cell phone useage should be the least of anyones' worries.

Thorns

[Dingbat]

Originally posted by Thorns
The company I work for provides me with a cell phone.  Since I am the regional manager, I budget the use of cell phones by 8 district managers.  We are all on a plan which has "x" amount of anywhere minutes a month, but if we are on the road much of the month we will use a lot more minutes than if we were in our field offices'.  Every month I get a detailed summary of the use of the cell phones, it is for record, but I rarely read it, and look at the bottom line for any overage of minutes.  I can change the plan, and usually my people have more minutes than they would ever want to talk(2000 minutes).  My people respect the personal use of the cell phone.  I encourage my people talk with their familys, or friends, as much as they like, as long as their work, and company phone calls are promptly completed.  If my company had a policy of only company business on the issued cell phones, all my guys would just get their own cell phones, and believe me, every "company" phone call would automatically go into voice mail.  The return phone call would be 59 minutes later, and their personal cell phones would be subsidized on their expense reports somewhere, no auditor would ever find.
Lesson one:  Don't mess with a guy when he's away on business most of the week, or month, and trying to keep peace in his home life.  The cell phone is his lifeline to hearing the people he loves, and his wife, and children need to talk to him whenever they want.   I don't want to train a new troop every month.  My people have time in grade from 28 years to 5 years.  And my people are expected to work hard, have fun, travel, make money, and have a happy home life.
Dingbat your leaders aren't very good leaders.  The cell phone useage should be the least of anyones' worries.

Thorns

Thorns, you sound like a person with great values.  These are the same values that I look for in a company.  This company has none, everything is about the bottom dollar and how much the owner of the company can walk away with...  They win contracts by well underbidding then to add insult to injury they put performance penatlys on the contract as well, so if the GOV decides they didn't like one thing they can deduct it from the contract.  If I could just find a suitable job, I'd be outta here.  Since the wife is getting orders in the next month or so, I'm just trying to suck it up.  Everyday is something new...

[gofaster]

They could fire you for abuse of company equipment anyway.  In this case, they're just taking the equipment away and leaving you to decide if you should foot your own cell phone bill.

[Dago]

I have to wonder if you are, what is termed "an at-will employee"?  This basically means you can be terminated any time they want with or without reason.

As far as cell phone use, if it's the companies phone, and they clearly stated verbally and in writing that it was not to be used for personal calls, what is the concern?  Use it only for business calls and you have no problem.

If, after the warnings recieved someone continues to use it for personal business, they should be fired for gross stupidity.

Don't worry about the legality of the policy, worry about somes excessive stupidity to get in that situation.

dago

[Dingbat]

LOL, I asked about using your own personal cell phone and submitting the expense report.  Their reply, creates to much paper work...   damned if you do, damned if you don't...

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Dingbat
it's in the first post

"Is it legal to take a business tool from someone and then fire them because they can't perform their duties? "

If you don't need a reason to fire someone, why would you ask if it was legal to fire someone? Of course it's legal..

[Coolridr]

They took 4 weeks (effectively 6 due to pay period scheme) to resolve a pay issue with me that they even admitted was thier fault, while they devolped a new policy.

Gee..only 4 weeks? In the Navy 4 weeks to resolve a pay problem is considered lightning fast service.

My government boss will Publicly (through email) Humiliates people when mistakes are made.

How about being publicly humiliated not only through e-mail, but also infront of your peers (while mustered at quarters)

Attempted to require us to sign a privacy policy that allowed them to view any personal information (including health records) they so desired under the guise of research

All govt employees and most of their contractors are required to sign privacy act statements.

Yes the company did indeed provide the cell phone.

If the company provided the cell phone....and laid down rules about the usage..and you broke those rules..some companies would fire you just on those grounds...if your job requires you to use a cell phone and you can't be adult enough to follow the rules and lose it....which in the end gets you fired..then really thats the same thing..why worry about it? Follow the rules and use your own cell phone for personal use.

personally I think a company should be able to hire and fire as it likes. Why should the government get involved. After all that company belongs to somebody and that is the government telling you what you are allowed to do with your property...something the government has no business doing. If everyone challenged the legality of a companies emplyment practices when they get fired then companies would be force to keep on substandard, obsolete, or troublemaking personnel costing a company more money which in turn drives up prices for the consumer..which means less consumer spending which leads to a slump in the economy.

[capt. apathy]

not sure about the legality of there situation (seems reasonable though)

the solution doesn't seem that difficult though.  just use the companies tools for company bussiness, use your own phone for personal calls.