What the "Good Guys" do..?

[Flit]

I agree w/ Shane here, If you suspect hacking or cheating film it and send it in.
Never discuss it on the BBS as it will result in the thread getting locked and or deleted

[Adogg]

...maybe i didn't RTFM well enough...why do they lock? Justification?

By the way my play time is VERY precious to me, I only get to fly once maybe twice a week but I'm constantly reading in here so that when I do fly i get more enjoyment out of it.

Thank you to all the good pilots - and that means everyone who asks intelligent and informative questions, not just the ones who hand me my prettythang all the time in the MA my progress might be slow but its quality that counts and you all provide me with valuable help and insight.

Cheers all.

[TweetyBird]

Edit: I've removed this and will put it in the technical support area.

[Skuzzy]

It serves no constructive purpose to discuss it.  All any player can do is speculate.  Through the course of this speculation, other players get paranoid.  Suddenly you have escalated speculation to extreme paranoia.
None of the above actually solved any problems, just created more.

We can actually do something about it.  A speculated issue could be a bug in the game we need to know about and correct.  There could be other issues you cannot be aware of that causes odd behavior.  We have the tools and means to analyze an issue.

Sorry for the off topic post.  Please get back to being helpful.

EDIT:  Tweety, it cannot hurt.

[gofaster]

One more thing: if you try a high-g nose-low turn in a plane that's been hit a few times but nothing has broken, there's a real possibility that your high-g turn could cause a wing to fall off or for your airplane to explode outright.

[WilldCrd]

Originally posted by Shane
here's a very good example of what's being done.


http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111083


i'll dig around in films and see if i can come up with another one.

also if you ask me, i'll gladly take you into the DA and let you bounce me to show you how it's done.  most of the time the move results in a snapshot opportunity before your e advantage lets you escape... but.... you have to be committed to making that escape because any loss of e from hesitating or pulling up too hard into the zoom, will only keep you in guns range. with .50's that danger zone extends to around 650 yds.

Been prcticing Wt's move like in the film i've watched it a dozen times and i "think" ive got it down i would like to practice in DA iffen somebody has the time to do it im available pretty much whenever just not the same without somebody shooting at ya

[Shane]

Originally posted by Shane
the second film (film21) shows it as well, and with the last encounter with the 109 you see the "180" move.
 

actually i attached the wrong film.. this is the film i was referring to the "180 move" in. it occurs around the 2 minute mark.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/150_1078966128_film23.zip

[VFJACKAL]

Originally posted by Shane
....also if you ask me, i'll gladly take you into the DA and let you bounce me to show you how it's done. .......
......another thing about the good guys is that they're usually more than willing to help you learn what they do.

I would appreciate the help Shane....And I'm not to proud to ask either.  Be happy to set a time that we both can be there and learn from ya all I can.

[beet1e]

Shane! -downloaded all you posted, and WT's film. Looking forward to watching them a little later!

[rv6]

Hi Shane, watched the films last night (several times).  Totally see what you're doing, and how it's works.  Thanks much!

Thing is..  (and my jaw literally dropped open, and said "OH....  MY.... GOD"

You multiprocess SO FREAKN FAST, that it's funny!

You click through the view keys, SO FAST, assimilate each little 1/4 second view-blip, correct flight attitude, process new incoming nme (distance, angle, etc), fire guns (effiecient conservative squirts),, and continue view scanning  throughout, at the speed of light..

You never, EVER loose site of the plane you're engaging..

You seldom if EVER actually look out the front view.. (only for quick shots) and fly totally by looking out side, up, and back windows! HA!

Faster than most normal human brains could interpret..

You've gota be kidding me!

NOW, I understand how the "good guys" do it.. Like a P5 CPU chip.  I couldn't do this with a lifetime of practice! ha!  But, I do understand "how" to perform the manuever at my P2 CPU level.. Thanks!

One last question, if I may.. (and you may feel free to NOT post an answer for obvious reasons, ha)

You are able to take on 2 & sometimes 3 nme and still win (track them all, slowly shoot em down, 1 at a time)..

Suppose, YOU were the one hi-alt attacker on a low nme of your same ability.  How would you beat this fellow, who constantly does this tuck under & shoot manuever?

I'm thinking, perhaps by making continuous hot strafe runs?  Spray and pray for a couple hits on each run?  Keep him low n' slow, you keep fast and BnZ'ing him?

What d'ya think boss?

Thanks again,

RV6 ~

[Shane]

2 things to bear in mind when watching the films....

1. i use instant views (sit at your pc, and try to move your own head scanning different perspectives as quick as you can - like ur in fear for your life, where the f is he?!?) pan and snap views seem too slow for me.

2. i have different head positions than what shows in the film, so my perspectives are actually a bit better.

it does give you a good idea of how i'm constantly scanning and adjusting to new data. i almost never get blindsided.

the way to beat what i do is to use the vertical to stay on top - i.e., make a fake pass or so trying to get me to burn even more e countering - altho i'm good about conserving e if it's only 1 or 2 guys. it's the committal to a guns pass that i am waiting for. i'll even use the guy i am on as bait for the incoming guy i see.

another is to anticipate and slow down enough to avoid the overshoot and stay behind me and hope you get me before we end up in rolling scissors. this is what i usually do, get slow enough to drop and stay on the target's 6. it's pretty difficult to force an overshoot on me.

my gunnery is only slightly above average, nowhere near levi's or wt's.. i'm not usually a quick killer,  i basically wear people down. i'm real good at capitalizing on mistakes that guys make.

the fast bnz passes work best if you have a 2nd or 3rd guy doing the same thing, it's very hard to defend and get a kill shot. this is the one situation where i'll actually commit to a HO because that may be the only chance i get.

however,  the longer i survive in a (multi-con) bnz situation, the greater the chance of eventually at least equalizing alt states and forcing the other guy to ru.. err extend enough to get  more breathing room.

when watching films it's good to both watch from internal (and see how i scan and how the instruments reflect what i'm doing) as well as externally - with trails on - to see the overall picture and how the angles are being worked.

in any case, hope it was educational.

[BlkKnit]

Hmmm...I jumped Fester once.....I lasted about 6 seconds! (maybe)

I need to watch that film.  I can avoid fairly well 1 on 1, sometimes 2 on 1 if they are not too good.  Its the turning the tide part that I cant seem to do.  And against multiples, I just cant track well enough.  The whole idea of checking all the views all the time and being able to make sense of what I see is beyond my reckoning.

I did participate in the simladder for a while, but it became difficult for me to keep it up.  I learned a bit while there, but shoulda stayed with it longer.

[stegor]

Tks Shane , watching your films is a real immersion in a world where "all seems so easy to do " , but when I try the outcome is not so bright.
I watched at films more times, in and out perspective, and I've made the idea that beyond all, I cant get a good managing of   throttle in this maneuver
May I ask you some lines about   how do you manage it

[Shane]

well, throttle management comes with experience. but it's mostly about anticipation - knowing what i'm trying to accomplish and predicting what the other guy will try to do. for example, i'm bouncing someone, i know he's most likely gonna try and split-ess out, so while coming down i'm chopping throttle (and maybe using some opposite rudder) to slow down and drop on his split-ess.  or in a rolling scissors, i'll use it, in conjunction with flaps and "wider" rolls to stay behind/force overshoot the guy i'm scissoring with. or if in a lag looping situation, i'll ease up to let the other guy pull a bit further ahead to make it easier to adjust to him.

a good plane to learn throttle control is the 109 because you have to get slow and stay slow to utilize the flaps. and since the 109 controls stiffen up fairly quick at higher speeds, it's also great for teaching you to how manage your speed to stay in control.

once you get the basics down with the 109, you'll find that experience transferring over to other planes.

[hogenbor]

I'm category 4, maybe 3 on a good day.

I've shot down good pilots but hardly ever in one on one's, these are rare at best.

Despite my 'un-Shanic' capabilities to process info I not often get SHOT down by fighters. I auger, collide, get hit by CV ack, Osti's or by return fire from bombers because I am so impatient. One on one's I mostly win but that might be because I'm category 4 and the guys I meet suck even worse.

What works best for me is to avoid overloading my SA and when within range of a lot of enemies keep my speed up.

My gunnery is quite good, courtesy of using the German 30mm alot. Despite this Shane once shot me down once with a 109 from an angle I never would have attempted even.

I don't fly more than a few hours per week because I found out I need full concentration, not possible when I'm tired after work. So I think that I'm as good as I'm ever going to get.

I really abhor, loathe and hate it when I die in this game... but careful flying, stalking and killing still gives me more satisfaction than mindless furballing, no matter how much I would learn on the SA front there.

Would be nice to go up in the DA once against a good pilot to learn a few tricks. I think I am good enough in E-management, gunnery, throttle management and basic flying and surviving. The fancy ACM stuff... nah. It's either outmaneuvering an opponent or dragging the E out of him. Can't do better than that.

Ow, and I jumped Fester twice, once when he was low and it was 4 against one. He didn't even evade. Second time was when I picked him off when he and his friends were vulching. He evaded but I got a planview shot in (got shot down seconds later though by a wingie). Not to say that I'm good but it's not impossible to get a good pilot with a little luck. But maybe it was his little nephew playing or something. Nevertheless I screamed so loud on vox that I startled people.