Author Topic: Disturbing  (Read 496 times)

Offline LAWCobra

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Disturbing
« on: March 10, 2004, 09:03:37 PM »
Donated Bodies Used in Land Mine Tests    
2 hours, 30 minutes ago  Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!
 

By CAIN BURDEAU, Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS - Seven cadavers donated to Tulane University's medical school were sold to the Army and blown up in land mine experiments, officials said Wednesday. Tulane said it has suspended dealings with a national distributor of donated bodies.

   

Tulane receives up to 150 cadavers a year from donors but needs only between 40 and 45 for classes, said Mary Bitner Anderson, co-director of the Tulane School of Medicine's Willed Body Program.


The university paid National Anatomical Service, a New York-based company that distributes bodies nationwide, less than $1,000 a body to deliver surplus cadavers, thinking they were going to medical schools in need of corpses.


The anatomical services company sold seven cadavers to the Army for between $25,000 and $30,000, said Chuck Dasey, a spokesman for the Army's Medical Research and Materiel Command in Fort Detrick, Md. The bodies were blown up in tests on protective footwear against land mines at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio.


Tulane said it found out about the Army's use of the bodies in January 2003. It suspended its contract with the anatomical services company this month. The company did not immediately return calls for comment.


"There is a legitimate need for medical research and cadavers are one of the models that help medical researchers find out valuable information," Dasey said. "Our position is that it is a regulated process. Obviously it makes some people uncomfortable."


Cadaver remains are routinely cremated, he added.


For years military researchers have bought cadavers to use in research involving explosive devices. In the last five years, that research has been used to help determine safe standoff distances, on how to build the best shelters, and to improve helmets, Dasey said.


Michael Meyer, a philosophy professor at Santa Clara University in California who has written about the ethics of donated bodies, said the military's use is questionable because it knows donors did not expect to end up in land mine tests.


"Imagine if your mother had said all her life that she wanted her body to be used for science, and then her body was used to test land mines. I think that is disturbing, and I think there are some moral problems with deception here," Meyers said.


The market in bodies and body parts is under scrutiny after two men, including the head of the Willed Body Program at the University of California at Los Angeles, were arrested for trafficking in stolen body parts.

Offline hawker238

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Disturbing
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2004, 09:19:59 PM »
Hey, somebody has to do it.

Offline MrCoffee

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Disturbing
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2004, 09:21:28 PM »
Well what do you think they used them for?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2004, 09:27:02 PM by MrCoffee »

Offline rogwar

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Disturbing
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2004, 09:29:45 PM »
No personal problem with that...it's science. It may appear a bit rough but you should see what is done in medical schools and research. They also use cadavers for impact testing for bone breakage analysis. I have seen such in engineering school (wow about 20 years ago). They were working on a project for a major corporation, albiet I was not involved in the project, just witnessed a few times.

The thing here is there is something a little weird. Sounds like this story may have been spun a bit. There is no real need to use cadavers in actual land mine testing considering other significantly lower cost methods and gelatinous materials available for fragment simluation.

We are not getting the full story here...

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Disturbing
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2004, 09:46:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LAWCobra

Michael Meyer, a philosophy professor at Santa Clara University in California who has written about the ethics of donated bodies, said the military's use is questionable because it knows donors did not expect to end up in land mine tests.

"Imagine if your mother had said all her life that she wanted her body to be used for science, and then her body was used to test land mines. I think that is disturbing, and I think there are some moral problems with deception here," Meyers said.




I dont see a difference.

being cut up for science is the same as being destroyed for science, they both serve the same purpose. To make our lives better.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2004, 09:56:47 PM »
He's just upset they weren't used for sniper ballistics testing. :aok

Offline john9001

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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2004, 10:04:51 PM »
i agree , the bodies were going to be cut up anyway, by that testing the army was trying to save some solders legs, and that is a good thing.

""Michael Meyer, a philosophy professor ""  another ivory tower idiot.

44MAG
« Last Edit: March 10, 2004, 10:07:43 PM by john9001 »

Offline LAWCobra

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Disturbing
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2004, 10:10:20 PM »
As long as the people who donate there bodies have full knowledge what they or might be used for then thats fine.

Offline Nefarious

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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2004, 10:33:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LAWCobra
As long as the people who donate there bodies have full knowledge what they or might be used for then thats fine.


I agree with you in some conditions...

But how would you know what there doing to you after you pass on...


Your dead.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline LAWCobra

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Disturbing
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2004, 10:35:53 PM »
Well you could say something like you may use my remains in medical research and or ballitic testing but not and crash testing .
Somthing like that I guess who really knows but I think you sholud have some say so.
I mean I dont think this is what these people had in mind :(

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2004, 10:36:01 PM »
Hell ..... donate it to Hollywood. May be your last chance. :D

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2004, 10:40:33 PM »
This just doesn't fit in with an all-volunteer military.

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

Offline Nefarious

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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2004, 10:49:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LAWCobra
I mean I dont think this is what these people had in mind :(


Well they signed the contract and theres nothing they can do now.

I think it would be kinda cool to be tested like that. I betcha its a hell of a lot cooler than being cut up by doctors in training.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2004, 11:38:57 PM »
This is so full of bovine excrement. If they did not want the bodies harmed in any way they should have not donated them. It is the height of arogance to say the body has more value than helping protect a soldier. WTF did they think was going to be SO different aout their body that "science" was going to learn something new by cutting it up.

Certainly being used by med students to practice anatomy is no less damaging to the cadaver.


:rolleyes:
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Offline Dune

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Disturbing
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2004, 11:51:31 PM »
They must not have been of high enough quality to turn into Soylent Green.