Garand vs Enfield vs Kar 98

[lasersailor184]

They made 425,977 MP-43's, MP-44's and StG-44's during the war (they were the same weapon). Had the war continued another year it would have replaced every rifle, submachinegun and light machinegun in the German army. After the war the StG44 resulted in the outright replacement of almost every infantry gun in the western world, serving as the direct inspiration for the AK-47, the most prolific gun in the world, and the indirect inspiration for practically everything else.

Hmm.  Funny.  The country that kicked Germany's bellybutton used Garands all the way up till late 50's...

In your wet dreams perhaps.

Listen, it gets kudos for being a revolutionary weapon, but it severely lacked in a few categories.

It wasn't all that accurate at any type of distance.  It's bullet had a hair more Muzzle Energy then the .30 Carbine, but didn't do as much damage.  The bullet didn't shatter, thus it was a weak round for any assault rifle, much less comparing it to what was being used.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Boroda
I mean - just look how StG and M-16 disassemble But IIRC M-16 has a rotating bolt (lock? i am not familiar with English weapon terms) like Kalashnikov, while StG has a different locking mechanism.

Here in Russia it's a common legend that Kalashnikov simply copied the StG, they look similar to many people, while they are absolutely different inside.

Yes, the M16A2's bolt rotates in the bolt carrier.  That is what lockes it into the chamber.  I still remember this from boot camp...had to say it every night.

"cycle of operations for the M16A2 service rifle is"
Firing
Unlocking
Extracting
Ejecting
Cocking
Feeding
Chambering
Locking

Its funny what you learn from repetiition

[hyena426]

The Mauser action is still state-of-the-art for bolt action weapons.

i own 2 mauser action rifles,,one is a berretta 6.5 and a manlicher 8mm,,i tell you what,,very tuff made,,but not smooth at all,, and not fast at all,, i would take my 30.40 krieg action any day over a mauser,,tons smoother and very dependible too,,even had races against the 2 with my freinds,,the krieg could unload its 5 shots way faster,,there is no way in hell a mauser could keep up with a m1 grand in speed,,shot and own each of them,,besides a m1 grand<~~but i have shot one,,my cousin owns a m1 thumb,,ouch,lol,,and i own a m14 308

the mauser is a very tuff and duralble design,,out of date by the time ww2 was full bore for regular troops<~~great sniper rifles till this very day im sure

[Batz]

Originally posted by Dowding
Nope. The Fleet at Oran was making ready to set sail prior to the British fleet getting there, depite these assurances. That's why the attack was initiated. If that fleet had managed to get to sea before the task force got there the whole course of the war would have been different. British Naval domination in the Med would have been neutered and North Africa would have been lost.

Do you really think the Royal Navy blew them out of the water for the fun of it? A fleet about to scuttle does not make itself ready to sail when it knows a task force has been sent to deal with it. it was a terrible decision, but it needed to be taken.

The Brits attacked the Vichy fleet at Oran on July 1 1940 after demanding it be turned over to them. Darlan had made promises to the Brits that his fleet would not fall into German hands, the Brits attacked any way. Darlan could not and was not going to hand his fleet over to the Brits. Especially considering the situation and pressure Vichy was under from the Nazis.

Also, there were numerous attacks made by Britain on Vichy. Whether you agree the action of the Brits or not these attacks had an impact on the attitudes between Vichy and Britain. Which goes back to the question, "Why did Vichy resist Torch?”. In reality they didn't put up determined resistance anywhere but Oran. By Nov 11 Darlan had agreed to a ceasefire.

[GtoRA2]

Is there really a huge difference between the BAR, and the BREN?

Both are Box magazine fed.

The bren uses 30 rounds mags?

The Bar 20.

Can  you fire the bren offhand? A good barmen can fire one this way.

Did the BARs we used in WW2 have a by-pod?

The only huge difference is the quickchange barrel? How much did that matter on a sqaud level?

[Dune]

Originally posted by storch
For smooth bolt actions I would guess that the Krag-Jorgenson wins hands down.

No, the Mauser isn't the smoothest out there.  In fact, the Enfield is much smoother.  However, the strength of the Mauser and the reliability of its controled feed puts it above the rest.  Take a look at the bolt-actions used for hunting today.  The majority of them (Winchester M70, Ruger M77, Dakota, and the sporter Mausers) are all based on the original Mauser action.  In fact, I'd say that 95% of the big bore rifles (cartridges over .375 such as the Holland and Holland magnum) that are used in Africa for dangerous game are Mauser-actioned guns.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Virage
why does the garand make thumbs bloody?

 

M1 thumb
when the bolt on a empty M1 Garand (as on most semi-autos) is pulled to the rear it will lock in the open position,
To release/close the bolt on a enpty M1, (after inspection/cleaning), the normal method is to place the edge of the right hand on the bolt operating handle and move the bolt slightly to the rear at the same time putting the right thumb in the magazine well to depress the spring follower to release the bolt lock.
Then wile holding the follower down you let the bolt come forward, if you don't get your thumb out of the magazine in time the bolt will smash it into the back of the chamber, and you will have a "M1 thumb".
most Marines learn fairly quickly and only get caught once or twice.

when you empty the clip it is ejected and  the bolt is locked to the rear, after loading a new clip you must pull the bolt slightly to the rear to unlock the bolt and the bolt return spring will push the bolt into battery.

i was trained in this weapon, i know what i say.

USMC

[lasersailor184]

Lol, they actually make reference to M1 Thumb in the weapons manuals we got from the CMP store.

[-aper-]

What makes M1 better than SVT-40 ?

SVT-40 provides all the features Garand has plus quick and easy reloading, better safety features, and easy sniper scope mounting.

[GtoRA2]

lol Knock on wood, but I have never caught my thumb in the action, nor have any of my friends lol.


I could see how it could happen though.

[lazs2]

yep dune the mauser is slow but strong... Also... It has a claw extractor that is pretty reliable.   Handy for those dirty chambers.  They made a cool tool for garrands and '03's that looked like a small clawed crowbar.. If a Garrand had a really bad chamber or faulty round it would more than likely just rip the rim on the cartridge and the bolt would stay open/be open... you stuck this thing in the reciever and levered out the offending round...  Bolt guns you basicaly hammer up and back on the bolt with anything heavy and either rip the rim off or pound out the round.

Most American platoons ended up with weapons that were not the recommended  norm... they were mixes of thomsons, Garrands and BAR's and m1/m2 carbines  with a model 97 pump shotgun in the mix..  They could lay down some wicked firepower.    The german mg34/42 was really the best light weapon system tho.   It's only real problem was it's high rate of fire ate up ammo at a procigious rate... this was even worse because of the german problem of outrunning (literally if yoiu think horsey) their supply lines.   It was so bad that they tried to cut down on the cyclic rate.

In the pacific... the thompson, garrand, mi/m2 carbine and 12 guage winchester and .45 auto were allmost the perfect weapons.

lazs

[GtoRA2]

Aper
 Can you post a link to engish info on the SVT-40?

What are the better safety features?

[hyena426]

For smooth bolt actions I would guess that the Krag-Jorgenson wins hands down.

yup,,,30.40 krieg is proubly the smoothest bolt action i have ever used,,,and i used alot of them,,i never seen any be even close,,just open the bolt and it practically falls back and loads its self,,hehe,,very good gun,,and very tuff too,,and a very good hunting rifle,,and you got to love the trash box loader,,,so nice to just pop it open and slide in a few shells,..and a magazine cutt of switch!!<~~never seen those on many guns lol,,so you can load the krieg like a single shot,,flip the switch then you can use your 5 shells in the mag:)

[Batz]

Length: 48.27 in
Weight, unloaded: 8lb 9oz
Barrel: 24.02 in, 4 turns, right hand twist
Magazine: 10 round, detachable box
Muzzle Velocity: c.2756 fps
Ammo: Russian Light Ball M'08
Bullet, 148gr; charge, 48gr;

There was also an auto version AVT

The SVT-38 (Samozaryadnaya Vintovka Tokareva - Tokarev Self-loading rifle) was originally adopted in the 1938 after more than 20 years of the research and development, done by famous Russian arms designer Fedor Tokarev. It was not a first Soviet semi-automatic rifle - there were the select-fire 'Avtomat' of 1916 by Fedorov and also select-fire AVS-36 of 1936 by Simonov. 'Avtomat' was chambered for Japanese 6.5mm Arisaka round and was declared obsolete, and the AVS-36 showed some design deficiencies, so new rifle was adopted. After initial trials, it was updated and re-adopted in 1940 as a SVT-40. This rifle was made in relatively large numbers (more than 1 million made prior to 1945), and was originally issued as a standard infantry rifle, replacing the obsolete Mosin-Nagant M1891/30 bolt action rifles. Few SVT-40 were also manufactured in the sniper variant, equipped with scope mounts and telescopic sights, but accuracy was not sufficient, so only about 50 000 sniper SVT-40 were manufactured, and these were supplemented by the Mosin-Nagant sniper rifles. The SVT-40 had a somewhat controversial reputation. It was highly regarded by the enemies (Finns and Germans) and it was a very sought-after war trophy, re-issued to both German and Finnish troops. On the other hand, it was often considered unreliable and over-complicated by the Soviet troops (when comparing with old Mosin-Nagant rifles), but it was more to the poor training and maintenance, than to the rifle itself. Some better trained and educated Soviet troops, such as Sea Infantry (Marines, which always were some kind of elite in the Soviet army) used the SVT-40 with great deal of success. After the end of the World War 2, most SVT-40 were quickly withdrawn from service and put into reserve stocks. Some rifles were later sold on domestic civilian market for hunters as a military surplus. Other than basic versions, there also were developed a shorter carbine SKT-40, and a select-fire AVT-40, but both seen very little service. Overall, the SVT-40 was in general no worse than American M1 Garand (and have some advantages over it, especially in the reloading procedures), and obviously better than earlier German Gew.41 semi-automatic rifles. It was the matter of training and education, and quality of the service of in the Soviet troops, that lead to the low popularity (in general) of this basically good rifle.

SVT-40 is a gas operated, magazine fed self-loading rifle. It uses a short piston stroke gas action, located above the barrel. The interesting feature of the SVT is that the gas block, along with front sight base and a muzzle brake, were produced as a single barrel extension unit. This greatly simplified the manufacture of the barrel, but the barrel extension itself unit was quite complicated to make. Gas chamber has 5 positions gas regulator to ajust the system for any conditions. The gas piston has its own return string and moved back for about 36 mm (1.5 inch) when gun was fired. It gave a quick and powerful stroke to the bolt carrier, which carried the bolt under it. Barrel locking was achieved by the rear part of the bolt, that tilted down to lock into the reinforced steel insert in the floor of the receiver. Charging handle was permanently attached to the right side of the bolt carrier. Detachable box magazine was made from sheet steel and hold 10 cartridges. SVT could be reloaded either by replacing the magazine or by using 5-round stripper clips of the Mosin-Nagant. Stripper clip guides were machined into the receiver top cover. Bolt system incorporated a bolt catch, that held the bolt group back when magazine was empty, to facilitate faster reloading, especially when using stripper clips.

Both SVT-38 and SVT-40 were hammer-fired, with safety switch located behind the trigger. When engaged, safety locked the trigger. On the rare AVT-40 select-fire rifles, safety had an additional setting for full-auto fire mode.

The SVT-38 featured a two-piece wooden stock with separate upper handguard with small steel insert at the forward end. SVT-40 had an one-piece wooden stock with shorter forend and separate upper handguard. Front part of the stock was replaced by the sheet steel cover with cooling ports. Cleaning rod, originally stored in the groove at the right side of the stock at the SVT-38, was relocated under the barrel on the SVT-40.

Sights of the SVT consisted of the post type front sight, mounted on the sight base with circular front sight guard, and a tangent type open rear sights, mounted on the rear part of the barrel. Sniper versions were equipped with special detachable, see-through scope mounts at the rear of the receiver, so the scope was offset to the rear, allowing to use a clip-charging facility.

SVT-38 was equipped with detachable, knife-bayonet. SVT-40 was issued with similar bayonet, but with blade shortened to save weight. Unlike the Mosin-Nagant, the bayonets were routinely carried in sheaths, and attached to the rifle only when required.

[TPIguy]

http://www.surplusrifle.com/