Spain

[CyranoAH]

Originally posted by john9001
CyranoAH, are you saying the terrorists attacks in Spain caused a change of govt?

this bods ill for the USA, al quida will think they can change a govt with terrorist attacks.

 i think in late Oct al quida will attack the USA to try to get their anti-war friend john (JFK) kerry elected.

I think the point that flicked the switch was the fact that the government was trying to make people believe it was an ETA attack at all costs (that was confirmed by a memo sent by the minister of foreign affairs to all embassies).

Add the fact that most people here were against the war (millions demonstrated) and you get the picture.

Daniel

[Tarmac]

Originally posted by john9001
CyranoAH, are you saying the terrorists attacks in Spain caused a change of govt?

I think he's referring to the Socialist victory in Spain's election.  Before the attack, the Popular party was leading in polls; the Socialists ended up winning, however.  

"Spanish Socialists have claimed victory in Spain's general election. Before Thursday's terror attacks, which killed 200 people, opinion polls indicated the ruling Popular Party would win by a comfortable margin, but with more than 90 percent of the vote counted the Socialists are just shy of an absolute majority."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/14/spain.blasts.election/index.html

I'm sure Daniel can give us a better rundown of Spanish politics, though.

[Horn]

Originally posted by Coolridr
they can't investigate everybody...and they are just asking for tools to help them investigate.....in case you haven't noticed the terrorists are here on our soil. Could be your neighbor for all you know...When I get elected Dictator oops President I'll be sure to purge hippies like you:D

Why in the world would they investigate everybody? It will soon be you are convicted by your associations, nothing more, nothing "illegal." They've even been using the Patriot Act for drug charges--which they are calling terrorism--they couldn't get the mandate through the legal way, so they use this subterfuge.

I'm not a hippie, merely a child of the Seventies. A conservative child of the seventies that is concerned that our gov't is moving in an utterly wrong direction.

h

[ravells]

Well, Horn, as long as there are people like you and Coolrider out there the balance shoud turn out to be about right.

Ravs

[Coolridr]

It will soon be you are convicted by your associations, nothing more, nothing "illegal."

Then don't associate with shady people:D

[rabbidrabbit]

Kinda a pity.. why do I get the impression that they just sent osama the message that he should do more of this to get his way.  It's a bit complicated but it looks like the people just voted and it was for more terrorism.

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by john9001
what part of the patriot act hampered my liberties?

The part that stops you from crashing airplanes into buildings...



*****ing flower children....

[ravells]

What's wrong with flowers?

Ravs

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by ravells
What's wrong with flowers?

Ravs

Nothing until you start making them into daisy chains, while prancing around wacked out on smack, singing Kumbaya at a freakin' protest the government march...

Fuggin' hippies....

[ravells]

I'm from Kew...I like gardening.

Ravs.

[Maverick]

Just a point here.

Every pilot in the US knows that there are now in effect regulations that are arbitrary and can result in jail time as well as loss of their license. This is ALL without any proof of intent to violate under law.

Best example is the Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR). They can and DO pop up very quickly. The pilot is responsible to comply with them even if they pop up while he is in flight and without notice. You can be flying perfectly legal in uncontrolled airspace and not in contact with any controller and violate a TFR placed in effect with NO agency responsible to see you are notified. Yes a pilot is required to get a flight briefing prior to a cross country flight. In VFR conditions after he is in flight the TFR can be implemented and there is no means of advising aircraft in flight of it. The pilot will be prosecuted.

Pilots can also have their licens suspended or revoked simply on the basis of suspicion on the part of homeland security. There is no recourse except to homeland security and they are not required to divulge the info that they used to suspend / revoke your license. Please note that there does NOT have to be any overt act on your part to have this happen. Mere suspicion is sufficient. Talk about a lettre de cachet.

Now still think that good intentions are a defense?